RIP: Charlie Kirk Assassinated at Event in Utah

[jmdrake]

Considering the government showed us a pic of a rifle with a plastic stock and a mismounted scope in an evidence box, then said it dated back to one or the other of the World Wars when plastic stocks didn't exist, then claimed the rifle they showed us wasn't even the rifle, I'd say the .30-06 rifle itself is looking pretty improbable.

But hey. If you want to spend the next three years looking for weird rounds to shoot out of this improbable firearm, I won't stop you.

Well you certainly were right about one thing, that I haven't been following this very closely, because I certainly missed that

That is pretty funny

 

[acptulsa]

Just another TikTok. No idea how to confirm or disprove it.

 

[TheTexan]

All this time I'm assuming that Tyler is a moron, but if he is a genius he'd use a caliber conversion sleeve to shoot 32 acp and then leave normal 30-06 cartridges as a red herring.

All he'd need to do is keep his mouth shut during the trial and he could be acquitted on that alone, when his defense team shows analysis of bullet recovered from Charlie

 

[acptulsa]

That's an awful lot of foreknowledge. Especially since the event wasn't announced until the day before it happened.

 

[nikcers]

How he was killed is not really important.

What can't be forgiven is why he was killed.

Charlie Kirk was killed because of his politics. He was unapologetically antisocialist. He went into the places where socialist indoctrination is most prominent and he opposed it.

 

[acptulsa]

What can't be forgiven is why he was killed.

What can't be forgiven is those who killed him. Which makes things which lie about why guilty of aiding and abetting his murderers after the fact. Only scum would do that.

 

[acptulsa]

 

[Danke]

 

[jmdrake]

All this time I'm assuming that Tyler is a moron, but if he is a genius he'd use a caliber conversion sleeve to shoot 32 acp and then leave normal 30-06 cartridges as a red herring.

All he'd need to do is keep his mouth shut during the trial and he could be acquitted on that alone, when his defense team shows analysis of bullet recovered from Charlie

So I've now seen the ballistics tests with the full metal jacket 30-06 (went straight through) and the soft core 30-06 (went straight through). Will somebody please do ballistics tests with every other possible bullet that could have been shot out of that gun (subsonic gun, other caliber with whatever sleeve you're talking about) so that the magic bullet/steel neck theories can be settled one way or the other?

 

[TheTexan]

So I've now seen the ballistics tests with the full metal jacket 30-06 (went straight through) and the soft core 30-06 (went straight through). Will somebody please do ballistics tests with every other possible bullet that could have been shot out of that gun (subsonic gun, other caliber with whatever sleeve you're talking about) so that the magic bullet/steel neck theories can be settled one way or the other?

Can't really test every possible combination, but in the unlikely event that he did use subsonic ammunition, its effective range is really only about 100 yards. So getting stuck in his neck at 130 would be reasonable in that case

 

[jmdrake]

Can't really test every possible combination, but in the unlikely event that he did use subsonic ammunition, its effective range is really only about 100 yards. So getting stuck in his neck at 130 would be reasonable in that case

So....here's a ballistics gel test for subsonic 30-06 done before Charlie Kirk was shot.



Looks to me like a subsonic 30-06 round should have left an exit wound on Charlie Kirk's neck.

 

[TheTexan]

So....here's a ballistics gel test for subsonic 30-06 done before Charlie Kirk was shot.



Looks to me like a subsonic 30-06 round should have left an exit wound on Charlie Kirk's neck.

Depends a lot on the exact ballistics which we obviously don't know. Even in that video, if you were to throw in a sturdy bone in there the bullet might get stuck if it hit directly.

(That video btw is 30-30 btw, but in terms of subsonic ammo its a close enough comparison, as subsonic ammo from either cartridge is gonna have similar ballistics)

 

[TheTexan]

@jmdrake you can see the amount of variability that bone can have on penetration depth in the below video. they tested various full powered rounds (e.g., not subsonic). their first test went 87 cm and a later test at around 4:00 only went 10 cm.

That's a lot of variability

 

[Snowball]

 

[acptulsa]

Will somebody please do ballistics tests with every other possible bullet that could have been shot out of that gun..?

That would take a hell of a lot of time and money for very little return. And there's no guarantee that some imaginative person couldn't dream up a way to make it shoot something else that you didn't even think of. Besides, cartridges can be custom hand-loaded with any amount of powder that'll fit, which almost creates an infinite set of possibilities by itself (not that loading the round with 0.0002 grain less powder will make a real difference).

Lone Star boy was reaching for the sake of arguing with me. But he opened the can of worms and won't explain himself, so I guess I'll clean up after him. I have an old .22 bolt action carbine (or rather I did, before the boating accident) that shoots .22 short, .22 long or .22 long rifle with equal ease, with no modification. That's because all three types slide into the barrel right down to the lip at their butt ends. But even though the projectile will fit through the barrel just fine, it can't fire .223.

.223, on the left, has shoulders. The entire cartridge won't fit in the barrel, so the bolt with the firing pin can't close with that round in the way. A bolt action rifle designed to fire .223, or .30-06, or .30 Winchester Mag or any of those high power rounds with shoulders like that, close with their firing pins much farther from the end of the barrel, so they can accommodate a round that won't completely fit down the barrel. They have to be designed to put the firing pin in the right place, away from the end of the barrel.

When our argumentative redneck went shopping for sleeves, he came up with something weird and arcane that basically extends the barrel back inside the gun. This holds the kind of round (like .32 or .30 Springfield) which is designed to slide all the way into the barrel, back where the firing pin can reach it. I won't use one because if it isn't aligned perfectly with the barrel, the bullet will get stuck and instead of propelling it out the powder will explode the gun in your face. That's how esoteric he's getting. That's how far he's reaching. We're talking difficult and potentially dangerous stuff for no performance gain at all.

Basically you already know what all the ready-made, widely available .30-06 rounds do already. For anything else under the sun, you have to ask yourself, would this 22 year old video game addict even think to try it, and why would he?

 

[TheTexan]

Lone Star boy was reaching for the sake of arguing with me. But he opened the can of worms and won't explain himself, so I guess I'll clean up after him.

What exactly did I not explain?

You can get subsonic rounds in a 30-06 by:
1) buying off the shelf subsonic rounds from niche ammo stores
2) intentionally reloading a subsonic load
3) unintentionally reloading a subsonic load, from a bad primer, bad powder, bad bullet, bad cartridge, or some combination
4) conversion sleeve
5) FAFO'ing with ammo that should never be put in a 30-06 to begin with

Seems pretty clear to me, though if you still don't get it I'd be happy to clarify any details you still find so utterly confusing

 

[acptulsa]

though if you still don't get it

Considering I'm the one who just put it in layman's terms for the laymen, I'd say I got more of it than any of us wanted. By a margin.

 

[TheTexan]

Basically you already know what all the ready-made, widely available .30-06 rounds do already. For anything else under the sun, you have to ask yourself, would this 22 year old video game addict even think to try it, and why would he?

He'd probably grab whatever was on grandpappy's shelf and shoot it without even knowing what it was.

And there's no way of knowing what's on his grandpappy's shelf

 

[acptulsa]

He'd probably grab whatever was on grandpappy's shelf and shoot it without even knowing what it was.

And there's no way of knowing what's on his grandpappy's shelf

That's your explanation for your .32ACP-and-sleeve red herring? Get real.

 

[TheTexan]

That's your explanation for your .32ACP-and-sleeve red herring? Get real.

I've said it's unlikely... so not sure why you find that suggestion so offensive.

We're talking difficult and potentially dangerous stuff for no performance gain at all.

It's not difficult it's just not very common. It's also not that uncommon. I don't have any conversion sleeves myself but I've seen people at the range use them before.

The most common use case for conversion kits is to plink at targets with ammo that you have a lot of lying around.

When properly used they are not dangerous at all.