RIP: Charlie Kirk Assassinated at Event in Utah

[acptulsa]

Found the full interview. If she's right, this is a major conflict of interest. And, honestly, I know things are this screwed up in other jurisdictions. The story is credible.

 

[ClaytonB]

Found the full interview. If she's right, this is a major conflict of interest. And, honestly, I know things are this screwed up in other jurisdictions. The story is credible.

State of Utah be like:

https://ronpaulforums.com/threads/anti-globalists-daily-stuff.560977/page-474#post-7319126

 

[ClaytonB]

 

[unknown]

 

[Anti Federalist]

This analysis seems legit. The tuber claims that if the bullet was a soft point it's possible that it could have lodged in Charlie's spine and not exited his body. Again, I don't know enough about ballistics to say one way or another but that kind of makes sense.

That's exactly what I said:

The difference is based on bullet construction, bullet placement and what it hit initially.

All expanding bullets, soft point, hollow point, semi jacketed hollow point, they are all designed to do the same thing: rapidly expand on impact, in order to transfer as much energy as possible into the wound canal, to cause as damaging an injury as possible, to either kill a game animal quickly and humanely with one shot, or to use against a human threat, in order to neutralize a lethal threat as quickly as possible.

This is what a soft point looks like after impact:

WARNING GRAPHIC.

Here's what a .30 caliber soft point does to a human thigh:

Here is the outline from a forensics/pathology team:

Rifle wounds

• Generally used in the military field
• High velocity missiles: the secondary cavity effect accounts for the vast majority of the damage (J Trauma Acute Care Surg 2019;87:690)
• In contact wounds of the head with centerfire rifles, there is massive tissue destruction of the skin, skull and brain with a heterogenous pattern of entrance and exit wounds (Leg Med (Tokyo) 2016;23:10)
• Full metal jacketed bullets produce less tissue damage and tend to travel through the body undeformed
• Semijacketed ammunition creates the classic lead snowstorm appearance on Xray due to the peeling back of the jacket as it travels through the body, releasing numerous, small lead fragments

Gunshot wounds

Gunshot wounds occur when a bullet hits the body, producing injuries, and are one of the most common causes of death and injury

www.pathologyoutlines.com

The neck wound to Kirk is consistent with a .30 caliber rifle, at a range of less than 300 yards, and most likely using a soft/hollow/jacketed hollow point projectile.

It sounds like a case can be made about who shot him from where, but that's not what I was commenting on.

And why I stick to a .30 caliber and not an AR style rifle in .223 is because of the massive damage that was done, simply by slinging a much larger and heavier bullet downrange.

Here's a comparison.

The left is a 5.56/.223 Remington. Standard round for all AR15 style/M16 rifles.

The middle is a 7.61x51/.308 Remington. Standard round for Vulcan miniguns, FN/FALs, SCARs and other battle rifles and numerous bolt action rifles.

The right is the .30-06

That designation means .30 caliber, which in real American measurements simply means bullet diameter in thousandths of an inch, Springfield rifle of 1906. The M1 Garand, possibly one of the finest battle rifles ever made, was chambered in .30-06. Along with millions of hunting and sport rifles made over the course of over 100 years.

You can see the damage that round could do.

 

[jmdrake]

That's exactly what I said:



All expanding bullets, soft point, hollow point, semi jacketed hollow point, they are all designed to do the same thing: rapidly expand on impact, in order to transfer as much energy as possible into the wound canal, to cause as damaging an injury as possible, to either kill a game animal quickly and humanely with one shot, or to use against a human threat, in order to neutralize a lethal threat as quickly as possible.

This is what a soft point looks like after impact:

WARNING GRAPHIC.

Here's what a .30 caliber soft point does to a human thigh:

Here is the outline from a forensics/pathology team:

Rifle wounds

• Generally used in the military field
• High velocity missiles: the secondary cavity effect accounts for the vast majority of the damage (J Trauma Acute Care Surg 2019;87:690)
• In contact wounds of the head with centerfire rifles, there is massive tissue destruction of the skin, skull and brain with a heterogenous pattern of entrance and exit wounds (Leg Med (Tokyo) 2016;23:10)
• Full metal jacketed bullets produce less tissue damage and tend to travel through the body undeformed
• Semijacketed ammunition creates the classic lead snowstorm appearance on Xray due to the peeling back of the jacket as it travels through the body, releasing numerous, small lead fragments

Gunshot wounds

Gunshot wounds occur when a bullet hits the body, producing injuries, and are one of the most common causes of death and injury

www.pathologyoutlines.com

The neck wound to Kirk is consistent with a .30 caliber rifle, at a range of less than 300 yards, and most likely using a soft/hollow/jacketed hollow point projectile.

It sounds like a case can be made about who shot him from where, but that's not what I was commenting on.

And why I stick to a .30 caliber and not an AR style rifle in .223 is because of the massive damage that was done, simply by slinging a much larger and heavier bullet downrange.

Here's a comparison.

The left is a 5.56/.223 Remington. Standard round for all AR15 style/M16 rifles.

The middle is a 7.61x51/.308 Remington. Standard round for Vulcan miniguns, FN/FALs, SCARs and other battle rifles and numerous bolt action rifles.

The right is the .30-06

That designation means .30 caliber, which in real American measurements simply means bullet diameter in thousandths of an inch, Springfield rifle of 1906. The M1 Garand, possibly one of the finest battle rifles ever made, was chambered in .30-06. Along with millions of hunting and sport rifles made over the course of over 100 years.

You can see the damage that round could do.

No. That's not what you said. You said:

I have no idea why.

Clearly there's an exit wound, you can see half the soft tissue of his neck blow out.

ETA - So I went and read the article posted, and came to the conclusion that the person making the statement has little knowledge or understanding of terminal ballistics.

An exit wound can be as small as an entrance wound, a neat hole punched through flesh or muscle, with a projectile recovered downrange in almost pristine condition, good enough to be analyzed for rifling matching.

Or it can be a bloody, gore streaked shitshow, as it was in this case, blowing out a large mass of soft tissue, bone and bullet fragments.

The difference is based on bullet construction, bullet placement and what it hit initially.

The exact same rifle could produce both these results.

On multiple videos I've seen there is something happening at the back of Charlie Kirk's skull (entry wound? exit wound?) and something happening at the base of his neck. (Entry wound? Exit wound?) I care not how big or small the hole is. But there is a geometry problem. The alleged shooter was from an elevated position. The normal path of the bullet entering the neck should have continued going down. Some people have speculated that he was wearing body armor and it ricocheted up. But multiple photos have debunked the idea that he was wearing body armor. The "no exit wound" group, like the person from Turning Point USA that you earlier said didn't know what he was talking about, suggest pressure from blood having to go somewhere caused the back of the skull to blow out.

What I would love to see is someone do a ballistic test with soft tip 30-06 since that is crucial to the "spine stopped the bullet" crowd. I've been gun YouTubers shoot ballistic torsos, dummies with fake bones ballistics gell and fake internal organs. See if a soft tip 30.06 that is shot into the neck will get stopped by the human spine. I"m looking forward to seeing this YouTuber doing the test.



At 3:30 in he shows the entry and exit wound on a deer shot in the neck with a 30-06. (Yet we're to believe CK didn't have an exit wound). I've heard people talk about hunting deer and not having an exit wound but were those deer shot in the neck or in the torso?

Meanwhile, there is the possibility that the small wound on the neck IS the exit would if CK was shot from the back.



If CK was shot with a low powered projectile like a high powered airgun could that pierce the skull and leave a small exit would on the neck? I don't know. I'd like to see a test of that as well.

Edit: One more thing. Please show man ANY image of Charlie Kirk's neck that looks like this:

That's a rhetorical question because I know that no such photo actually exists at this point.

 

[acptulsa]

The neck wound to Kirk is consistent with a .30 caliber rifle, at a range of less than 300 yards, and most likely using a soft/hollow/jacketed hollow point projectile.

You're right about one thing. Bullet construction does matter. But when you start talking about thirty carbine you instantly turn into an idiot. "Yeah, I can talk about whether he was hit with an AR-15 'cause I was hit with .22 short once."

Powder is power and it matters, too. .30 carbine and .30-06 may deliver more or less the same piece of lead, but the latter is propelled by a sixteen cylinder Alco 251 and the former by a thirty horse Evinrude.

Suppose I told you an eighty foot boat is an eighty foot boat, and it doesn't make any difference if it's a trawler or a tug. Would you call me an idiot?

Power matters.

 

[acptulsa]

 

[acptulsa]

Since the Elizabeth Lane interview hit, Fox started advertising Michael Burke joined the Robinson defense team. I don't know if that's how he spells his name, or even if I got it right, because Fox said it only once on the clip that I saw, and didn't flash it or his face on the screen. They do list as his big resumé bullet point that he represented the Menendez brothers.

I'm having trouble finding information on that too. So he was on the 1989 team that made no mention of their sexual abuse at all and got them both life sentences?

 

[acptulsa]

Something else that could mean something, or could mean absolutely nothing at all.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You're right about one thing. Bullet construction does matter. But when you start talking about thirty carbine you instantly turn into an idiot. "Yeah, I can talk about whether he was hit with an AR-15 'cause I was hit with .22 short once."

Powder is power and it matters, too. .30 carbine and .30-06 may deliver more or less the same piece of lead, but the latter is propelled by a sixteen cylinder Alco 251 and the former by a thirty horse Evinrude.

Suppose I told you an eighty foot boat is an eighty foot boat, and it doesn't make any difference if it's a trawler or a tug. Would you call me an idiot?

Power matters.

Yes, of course it does. I already made myself clear in previous posts that I was talking of a .30 caliber rifle round, not a carbine round nor an AK round, which is also .30 caliber.

.30-06 Springfield, .308 Remington, .338 Lapua - something like that is what hit Charlie Kirk.

 

[acptulsa]

.30-06 Springfield, .308 Remington, .338 Lapua - something like that is what hit Charlie Kirk.

And his neck looked nothing like that disgusting pic you posted of human thigh meat. And you're parroting Kash&Karry Patel in saying there's no exit wound.

You aren't making a lick of sense. The last time you sounded this ridiculous was when you were still brainwashed by the CIA about 9/11. If you say the bullet stopped but can't say where did the momentum go, you're just like that cop who parked on the railroad tracks to chase a suspect. "I left my disco lights on. Why didn't the ten thousand ton train stop?"

 

[TheTexan]

And his neck looked nothing like that disgusting pic you posted of human thigh meat. And you're parroting Kash&Karry Patel in saying there's no exit wound.

You aren't making a lick of sense. The last time you sounded this ridiculous was when you were still brainwashed by the CIA about 9/11. If you say the bullet stopped but can't say where did the momentum go, you're just like that cop who parked on the railroad tracks to chase a suspect. "I left my disco lights on. Why didn't the ten thousand ton train stop?"

I don't know why you're biting his head off. We don't know enough about the ammunition to draw any conclusions.

Subsonic ammunition could pretty easily fail to penetrate all the way through. Bullet momentum will be pretty low beyond 100 yards.

 

[acptulsa]

I don't know why you're biting his head off.

Is that what it's called now when someone points out that the evidence posted dispoves that argument of that poster?

We don't know enough about the ammunition to draw any conclusions.

Is that the "royal We" or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Subsonic ammunition could pretty easily fail to penetrate all the way through. Bullet momentum will be pretty low beyond 100 yards.

Where do you find 30-06 subsonic? How much extra do you pay for custom loads? What do they fill the extra space with?

 

[TheTexan]

Is that the "royal We" or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Well, if you know everything then please provide a source for how you know the grain of the bullet, and the powder loading.

Where do you find 30-06 subsonic? How much extra do you pay for custom loads? What do they fill the extra space with?

Subsonic isn't a particularly popular loading for 30-06 but it does exist.

If the person Tyler borrowed/stole the gun from does reloading he very well may have used subsonic rounds that way.

Below store has subsonic 30-06 for $3 a bullet.

30-06 SUBSONIC – Custom Reloads of Dallas

dallasreloads.com

Reloading subsonic 30-06:

 

[acptulsa]

No. That's not what you said.

Which is worse? A Yankee denying everything you said while posting proof confirming everything you said? Or a Texan taking a paternalistic tone while confirming everything you said as if you were an idiot to be right?

 

[TheTexan]

Or a Texan taking a paternalistic tone while confirming everything you said as if you were an idiot to be right?

as if?

 

[acptulsa]

as if?

We already knew Republicans eventually start preserving, protecting and defending all the dumb stuff Democrats bring to pass. Now we know about how long that takes.

It has been right about five years since Democrats decided that anyone who is right about something is too stupid and illiterate to read the propaganda. Apparently that's how long Democrat lies have to stand before the GOP takes them as gospel.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And his neck looked nothing like that disgusting pic you posted of human thigh meat. And you're parroting Kash&Karry Patel in saying there's no exit wound.

You aren't making a lick of sense. The last time you sounded this ridiculous was when you were still brainwashed by the CIA about 9/11. If you say the bullet stopped but can't say where did the momentum go, you're just like that cop who parked on the railroad tracks to chase a suspect. "I left my disco lights on. Why didn't the ten thousand ton train stop?"

What the actual fuck is the matter with you?

@jmdrake jumped on my ass, just a few posts back in this very thread, for me saying there was an exit wound that is clearly visible.

And I'll bet solid money, if the pathology report is ever released, that the wound in his neck looks exactly like the photo I posted.

And by 2007, when this forum was started, I was fully convinced that the official story of 9/11 was utter bullshit.

Here I am discussing "9/11 Truth" back in 2008 with Amy.

I had a long debate thread with her, it was I that took the position that 9/11 was most certainly a government "inside job", although the exact level and mechanics of that could certainly be questioned.

She did not believe that.

(I've searched high and low for it, but came up empty. Maybe The Roach @Occam's Banana could dig it up.)

So why not shut the fuck up about shit you can't remember?

Post in thread 'Alex Jones video'

May 17, 2008

Not at all. I like many of the things you post. I mean, the assumption is that I automatically don't like the truthers on this board just for being truthers and that's just not true. I like flames2dust, you, and many others who would say that they're truthers. My best friend is a bit of a truther. What I don't like is having stuff shoved down my throat--and my perception of you is that you share information, you generally don't call people idiots, trolls, government agents, whatever if they don't fall in step with you 100%.

I found that was the case with several of the more rabid...

• Anti Federalist

That said, ya'll can sit and spin for all I fucking care.

You've all poisoned the well so fucking badly with harebrained, crackpot theories about how he was killed, that thing I said would happen is now sure to happen, fucking yet again: he will pass from the public eye, be forgotten in a month, and no-fucking-body will be held accountable, again.

Mission fucking accomplished, you fucking asshat.

 

[acptulsa]

I had a long debate thread with her, it was I that took the position that 9/11 was most certainly a government "inside job", although the exact level and mechanics of that could certainly be questioned.

I'll be damned. You're right. I was remembering it ass-backwards. Sorry.

Damn, I just noticed that was a long time ago.

That was a fun trip down memory lane. A lot of her threads have disappeared.