Right-Wing Obtuseness on Immigration

[TheTexan]

And once government got involved, all bets were off.

You just proved my and Jacob's point

If you say so lol

 

[TheTexan]

I would remind you that America was a nation, long before it was a "government".

It's when it ceased being a nation, that it started going dramatically downhill.

 

[PAF]

I would remind you that America was a nation, long before it was a "government".

It's when it ceased being a nation, that it started going dramatically downhill.

You mean before the time when you said:

"That utopia did exist back in the 1900's. It was called America."


See how bad government really is? It really is bad for ones health!

 

[TheTexan]

You mean before the time when you said:

"That utopia did exist back in the 1900's. It was called America."


See how bad government really is? It really is bad for ones health!

A nation can have a government, it's not mutually exclusive. It's when you have a government without a nation, that you run into the serious problems.

This was still a nation up until about 1960 or so. A flawed nation, in any case, with the major flaw of course being Lincoln's duct tape keeping it together.

 

[PAF]

A nation can have a government, it's not mutually exclusive. It's when you have a government without a nation, that you run into the serious problems.

This was still a nation up until about 1960 or so.

For starters, the Anti-Federalists were right. Not the one on this board, though, he was the outcast black sheep who sided with the central planners

 

[TheTexan]

For starters, the Anti-Federalists were right. Not the one on this board, though, he was the outcast black sheep who sided with the central planners

I don't disagree. If you see my edit I will definitely concede that the union was certainly not perfect. And it would have been better off as smaller nations, as the Anti-Fed's had envisioned.

 

[PAF]

I don't disagree. If you see my edit I will definitely concede that the union was certainly not perfect. And it would have been better off as smaller nations, as the Anti-Fed's had envisioned.

One caveat... you said "up until about 1960 or so". 1913 was pretty significant and got their ball rolling fast.

 

[TheTexan]

One caveat... you said "up until about 1960 or so". 1913 was pretty significant and got their ball rolling fast.

Yea I blame that on Lincoln. Most things can be blamed on Lincoln.

Even with the Fed, it wasn't until the 1960's that the spending permanently started going crazy.

 

[PAF]

Yea I blame that on Lincoln. Most things can be blamed on Lincoln.

Yep. And with the way things are, the last thing I'm worried about are some poor immigrants getting a job mowing lawns or working a factory that Americans don't want. I'm for self-preservation and each and every one of my rights. Which include staying and living as free as I can, or the option to bolt the f&ck out of here without being civil asset forfeitured.

Nobody cares about fiscal responsibility anymore with regard to anything/everything under the sun, except for poor immigrant. What's another few billion on top of the debt this nation has and the amount they spend on foreign intervention. It ain't gonna stop.


The Fed Hits the Panic Button and Slashes the Fed Funds Rate

 

[Invisible Man]

Yea I blame that on Lincoln. Most things can be blamed on Lincoln.

That is ironic that you started this part of the discussion by saying America was a nation, long before it was a "government".

It was Lincoln who made it a nation. Before him, America wasn't even a nation. Notice that the word "nation" never occurs in the US Constitution. And, unless I'm mistaken, I think that it was only around the time of Lincoln that the USA started to be called a nation, at least with much frequency.

 

[jmdrake]

Thought experiment for you:

Imagine there was a hidden village of 1000 people who for 1000 years had no contact with the outside world and for 1000 years they lived in total prosperity. They all shared extremely similar values and as such there was virtually no violence, strife, or crime. It wasn't a perfect utopia, but compared to the rest of the world, it was. They had wealth, safety, land, and happiness.

Then imagine that the magical wall that kept them invisible suddenly came down. They make it an open policy to let anyone cross into their lands. News spreads across the world about this small country with immense wealth and opportunity.

How do you think this village is gonna fare? Do they 1) prosper further from all the nice immigrants coming in, or 2) get ransacked by Venezuelans and get left for dead in their backyards

That utopia did exist back in the 1900's. It was called America. It wasn't a perfect Utopia, but compared to the rest of the world, it was.

There was no "magical invisible wall" keeping people out in the 1970s when I was a kid and we were able to walk across the border to Mexico to get a birthday pinata and walk back without knowing when we crossed. During that same trip it was harder to get from Arizona to California because there was a fruit quarantine going on. I think tht's [MENTION=40029]PAF[/MENTION]'s point. The more the government has gotten involved the worse the immigration problem has become.

 

[jmdrake]

And that's just the welfare... There are also huge government payouts to support this grift. Here's just one recent announcement:



If anyone is under the assumption that we're seeing a natural migration of people just yearning to breathe free, a little research should dispel them of this notion. And what's worse is that the beneficiaries of this spending isn't just the migrants, but a whole industry stood up to profit off them and a democratic party that is encouraging it in order to secure power.

Yeah. Like the Democrats can pass $780 million dollar spending packages without Republican acquiessance. But thanks for the additional data! Now if only there was a presidential candidate or VP candidate that would talk about immigration in terms of dollars and cents as opposed to cats and dogs. Rand Paul/Thomas Massie 2028?

 

[Invisible Man]

There was no "magical invisible wall" keeping people out in the 1970s when I was a kid and we were able to walk across the border to Mexico to get a birthday pinata and walk back without knowing when we crossed. During that same trip it was harder to get from Arizona to California because there was a fruit quarantine going on. I think tht's @PAF's point. The more the government has gotten involved the worse the immigration problem has become.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again."

 

[CaptUSA]

Yeah. Like the Democrats can pass $780 million dollar spending packages without Republican acquiessance. But thanks for the additional data! Now if only there was a presidential candidate or VP candidate that would talk about immigration in terms of dollars and cents as opposed to cats and dogs. Rand Paul/Thomas Massie 2028?

Right?

And that's just one program. There are dozens of those buried in other spending bills throughout federal and state governments. They spend billions of our dollars making these problems worse! I guess it helps the GOP with fundraising and helps the Dems with power structures.

Like always, the answer is less government. If we could shut that stuff down, immigration wouldn't be the issue it is. But to just open the borders while these things are in place will make it even worse!

 

[TheTexan]

That is ironic that you started this part of the discussion by saying America was a nation, long before it was a "government".

It was Lincoln who made it a nation. Before him, America wasn't even a nation. Notice that the word "nation" never occurs in the US Constitution. And, unless I'm mistaken, I think that it was only around the time of Lincoln that the USA started to be called a nation, at least with much frequency.

Lincoln took 2 (or more) nations and tied them together with duct tape. So yes, while he did make a nation, it was created through aggression and was destined to fail eventually.

 

[TheTexan]

There was no "magical invisible wall" keeping people out in the 1970s when I was a kid and we were able to walk across the border to Mexico to get a birthday pinata and walk back without knowing when we crossed. During that same trip it was harder to get from Arizona to California because there was a fruit quarantine going on. I think tht's [MENTION=40029]PAF[/MENTION]'s point. The more the government has gotten involved the worse the immigration problem has become.

There was an invisible wall. Two invisible walls, actually. One was called the Atlantic, and the other was called the Pacific.

Affordable air travel in the 1970's was basically the death knell of any semblance of cultural identity America had left.

 

[PAF]

Right?

And that's just one program. There are dozens of those buried in other spending bills throughout federal and state governments. They spend billions of our dollars making these problems worse! I guess it helps the GOP with fundraising and helps the Dems with power structures.

Like always, the answer is less government. If we could shut that stuff down, immigration wouldn't be the issue it is. But to just open the borders while these things are in place will make it even worse!

Bingo.

But, the border is not "open" as many claim. That is msm/government propaganda which is used to make people want the government to "do something".

The border is closed. Meaning, when people come from other places, whether it's for work, pleasure, or simply to immigrate, they are checked and processed and given permission by government goons to enter/leave. In the case of immigrants, they are being funneled into check points, at which they are processed, and given paperwork to become "legalized". Once "legalized", they work according to government regulations and taxation, including "minimum wage", and allowed access to government programs and benefits on the tax payer dime.

Years ago before government was so entrenched, immigrants [and you and I] were able to cross the border freely as [MENTION=849]jmdrake[/MENTION] noted earlier. For those concerned about "wide-spread catastrophic diseases which would end the worlds population as we know it!!!", a simple medical check would suffice.

If we returned to undocumented rather than "illegal", that would ease the burden of the tax-payer, and after work-season is over immigrants could simply return back home freely as they did years ago. But the government considers people as cattle/slaves and would rather keep them "legalized" in order to obtain more tax money, while draining the tax payers who foot the bill. It is a vicious cycle where the left feed the right feed the left. And in order to clamp down tighter to "fix the problem" that they created, more police-state is implemented where government public/private contractors rake it in.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

That utopia did exist back in the 1900's. It was called America. It wasn't a perfect Utopia, but compared to the rest of the world, it was.

You're still in that ridiculous left/right paradigm so it's moot to even discuss. Follow the Money, for starters.

I think it's best that one starts defending/protecting ones own rights before advocating "solutions" that are designed to enslave one [all humans] further.

Follow the money indeed. The first waves of massive immigration were required to conquer, settle, and hold the entirety of what is now the US. It was a great replacement of the native population. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then immigration was required for cheap labor. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then immigration was required for cheap labor, ignorant votes, and and to divide the US. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then the US was no more, and the glorious one world government took full control. Migration and movement became very tightly controlled. Only those with a high enough social credit score were allowed to move or travel. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

 

[PAF]

Follow the money indeed. The first waves of massive immigration were required to conquer, settle, and hold the entirety of what is now the US. It was a great replacement of the native population. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then immigration was required for cheap labor. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then immigration was required for cheap labor, ignorant votes, and and to divide the US. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

Then the US was no more, and the glorious one world government took full control. Migration and movement became very tightly controlled. Only those with a high enough social credit score were allowed to move or travel. This was profitable for many, more for some than others.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are advocating, or at least making a case, for government imposed minimum wage on both employer and employee, negating contract rights between said employer/employee. If so, what wage do you determine should be set? When milk is priced at $19.99/gallon? $29.99/gallon?

I know plenty of red-blooded white Americans who have lived here their entire lives who "vote" for socialism. Should I blanket label them as well?

I have encountered lots of Karens and MAGA-cap wearers who pretty much don't care what is taught in schools [there are some exceptions], as long as they have a place where their kids can be baby-sat while they are at work. If they actually were worried, local schools wouldn't be as bad as they are. So far, I personally haven't seen droves of Ecuadorians or Chinese folks taking over the school boards in my area, yet as far as education goes they far from pass the muster. So far as I know, the Japanese actually take pride in learning, maybe Americans can learn something from them.

I think more people need to get off of their @sses and take some personal responsibility before blaming "other". At that point, maybe we can then address your "concerns".

Sorry, Brian, my world view is different than most. Sometimes I consider whether I am right or wrong, but history has repeatedly shown that doing the same things over and over again [laziness] has caused our consistent downward spiral. Based on that, perhaps we should try things my way for a change [more personal responsibility and hard work] just to see what happens.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Globalist corporatarians selling their country and liberty for a fistful of dollars. (which they will have taken from them by those they sell their souls to)