Restore the Paleo-Alliance?

i am in agreement, erowe1 --- sometimes Mister Donald Trump's semi-literate supporters
are wiser than his fully literate ones, sometimes the reverse can be patchwork quilt said...
 
Aratus said:
if they have absolutely no idea who FDR, JFK and LBJ were, let alone HHH of Minnesota,
then each time they see AU + H2O they simply think in terms of elements and chemistry
and not our Bill of Rights and Freedoms or Liberties. I despaired at explaining who Robert
Taft was, but had an optimistic hope they understood what happened in 1964 and 1968.
Click to expand...
I'm from Goldwater Country, and I have never seen "Goldwater" expressed as AuH20 (30+ years of living in the Grand Canyon State, too) until I came to RPFs.
 
Aratus said:
if they have absolutely no idea who FDR, JFK and LBJ were, let alone HHH of Minnesota,
then each time they see AU + H2O they simply think in terms of elements and chemistry
and not our Bill of Rights and Freedoms or Liberties. I despaired at explaining who Robert
Taft was, but had an optimistic hope they understood what happened in 1964 and 1968.
Click to expand...

I'll tell you what they "know".

They know that the South and States Rights were treason. That these small government conservatives were, and still are racist to the core, and the North, especially the glorious President Lincoln was the only President of Value in the 19th Century. This is truly when American History began (outside of those Founding Fathers, who wrote the Constitution in 1776 to declare a democracy, free from the tyranny of the king and of the christian religion. America, because of its institutional form of government, and all of its checks and balances, and "We the People", never have to fear tyranny. Thank the environment for America.

History, from the Founding, jumps straight to the Civil War...where the North did no wrong. To reconstruction...which would have worked completely, if the North didn't pull out the troops. Because then Jim Crowe started. Only government could save them.

Meanwhile, everyones favorite president, Teddy Roosevelt, was a macho man, who was in the Rough Riders and was a Bull Moose. He broke up those nasty monopolies that are caused by capitalism. Teddy truly is the standard bearer for what Republican Party should have been...because both Democrats and Republicans love him (god this is hard to type). Then we go to Wilson, he made the world safe for democracy, but the League of Nations failed because they were too weak. Just like the articles of confederation. Because of that, and because of american isolationism,...ooh, and appeasement...Hitler rose to power. Japan and Hitler wanted to take over the world, so the Japanese did Pearl Harbor. Hitler was stupid and had a 2 front war...but don't worry, if you mess with 'murica, you're gonna lose pretty quick. We won the war with Germany...and we needed to use nukes to save millions of Americans from having to invade Japan.

Did i mention that the New Deal saved us from the Great Depression...yea, the one that capitalism caused.

The next important thing that happened was JFK, truly the greatest president in the world, ever. He got shot, and he prevented the Russians from nuking us by embargoing them in the bay of pigs.

THis of course, if after the 1950s, the worst decade in American History, because both women and black people were oppressed, and everyone was super fake and stuff.

Then LBJ came, and he worked with MLK jr to finally defeat those stupid southerners and white people and racist republicans. He also did the great society, which is just as good as the new deal.

Then we had nixon, who gave us vietnam, which we hate because of sex, drugs, and rock n roll. No other reasons. But its okay, because we won.

Then there was Reagan, who defeated the Russians by outspending them in an arms race. Luckily, our government outspent them.

Just as the Russians fell to American Exceptionalism, the terrorists in Iraq started threatening us, so we invaded them under Bush Senior. We had a perfect economy and peace under Clinton. He was impeached because of politics. W. Bush is satan incarnate, he gave Iraq by lying...(or)...the Iraqis did 9/11 and we won the war.....

then there is Obama who is either:

Saint/Hero or Satan/Muslim

And that. That is the education level of the typical young American. I shit you not, that is for real. Because that is what i learned in school....it could have only gotten worse since. Having knowledge of the losers of elections...get real. They don't even read anymore.
 
erowe1 said:
I don't see how the Old Right is not alive and well here. Despite the upswing of Trump trolls lately, it still seems to be the dominant political ideology.

Paleo-conservative and Old Right are two different things. Yes, Trump is enjoying a lot of paleo-conservative support, but that's only for the issues that paleo-cons get wrong (immigration and trade), and none of the ones they get right.
Click to expand...

How would you know? You don't agree with either. You advocate for no borders at all and thus no national sovereignty.
 
they do not have the intellect to connect up the party planking Bernie Sanders wants to inflict on Hillary "C" and people
to a great American, who ended up in prison because he got Woodrow Wilson the Virginia Segregationist rather PO'ed
almost a century ago. i pause for a moment and think of Eugene Debs, who once headed the Socialist Party as he did a
classic third party POTUS run. later on, FDR's New Dealers did borrow many of his ideas, but not totally his socialism!
 
Libertas Aut Mortis said:
IX. Western culture as eminently worthy of preservation and defense.

X. Objective standards of morality, especially as found in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as essential to the free and civilized social order.
Click to expand...

You can bury them as the last two, but when they get 90% of the emphasis from the ideology's supporters, we can tell what the real deal is.
 
erowe1 said:
I don't see how the Old Right is not alive and well here. Despite the upswing of Trump trolls lately, it still seems to be the dominant political ideology.

Paleo-conservative and Old Right are two different things. Yes, Trump is enjoying a lot of paleo-conservative support, but that's only for the issues that paleo-cons get wrong (immigration and trade), and none of the ones they get right.
Click to expand...

You're probably right. I am being Jaded to some extent. I'm Old Right, you're Old Right...shades different, sure. But I could work with most of the non-trumpians on here...even some of the trump guys when they are being reasonable.

Paleo-Conservative and Old Right are very different. Yes. But I think we can work with them to some extent. To me, the Paleo-Con Platform is basically the John Birch Society, or the Constitution Party. Both of which I respect...I'm not in full agreement all of the time...but I can work with those guys.

The Old Right, to me, much more similar to the Paleo-Libertarians. I mean, Ron Paul, regardless of if he called himself one, was essentially a Paleo-Lib. The shoe fits...he often spoke to the John Birchers and endorsed CP Party candidates. But he, as much as anyone, is the poster child...grandpa....for the Old Right.

And you are COMPLETELY CORRECT, that the paleo-con support is for Immigration and Trade.

Trade wise, Trump and Paleo-Cons are totally wrong on. I shouldn't need to elaborate. But i do appreciate their hostility to NAFTA ect.

Immigration, my issue with them is they are totally statist in their means to their ends...of which I am personally very sympathetic towards. I'm not very sure how to maintain Rule of Law, national sovereignty, and to secure the priviliges of citizenhood while the country is being invaded by overstayed visas, poor migrants, and hordes of welfare leeches....
 
Libertas Aut Mortis said:
Can you clarify, I hate to be rude by misunderstanding what you are meaning here.
Click to expand...

When the suggested methods of preserving white western culture involve harming the free market, expanding the state, and depriving people of their property rights, the implication is that values 9 and 10 are more important than the other 8.
 
Aratus said:
AU = GOLD
H two O = WATER

GOLD plus WATER = Goldwater!

AuH2O became a reporter's
shorthand in 1964!


the RPFs = fun!


http://oldpoliticals.com/goldwater__au_h2o_1964_our_next_president__3_5__pi-lot28444.aspx
Click to expand...
Cool story, bro. :) :cool: Thanks for sharing. Barry is a generation or 2 before my time, but he's always been a rather popular topic on local radio and media. There's a Goldwater memorial in Phoenix/Paradise Valley, ya know. I'm pretty sure there are streets and parks and such named after him too.
 
TheCount said:
When the suggested methods of preserving white western culture involve harming the free market, expanding the state, and depriving people of their property rights, the implication is that values 9 and 10 are more important than the other 8.
Click to expand...

Well, lets cut the cutesy stuff. White culture. Sure. That is fair, Europe and America (the West) are disproportionately white. I make no apologies for believing white/western civilization to be "superior". This obviously does not mean only whites or westerners can take part in it, nor does it mean that somehow it works better for "us" than for "others". Simply that comparatively, Western Civilization is Superior. You can disagree, but I think you'll be hard pressed for examples.

Harming the Free Market (Adam Smith, Western), expanding the state (Thomas Jefferson, Western), depriving people of their property rights (John Locke, Western),.....I'd say that perhaps you have a misinterpretation of Western Civilization...and the difference between Social Institution and Governmental Institutions.

Their philosophical roots go all the way through Western History, to the Ancients....but I contend that the Enlightenment is the pinnacle of Western Civilization. Marxism and its corresponding Egalitarianism drove the first nail in the coffin of Western THought...followed by the fall of the European Empires, and the rise of the 3rd world against civilization.

Virtue has all but died in this world. And with it. Liberty.



IX. Western culture as eminently worthy of preservation and defense. (This means to defend the culture that has been building for over 2,000 years, since the Ancient Greeks...Classical Education could truly demonstrate the importance of this to you. )

X. Objective standards of morality, especially as found in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as essential to the free and civilized social order. (Simply means, law is based off of western traditions...there is right and wrong. And those truths do not change in time or culture. They are fixed....take the Christian Just War Theory as example)
 
That's quite a lot of pretty words saying nothing while nobly fighting several strawman arguments. I did not mention my opinion of white or western culture, or whether or not I felt it was superior or worth defending. All of that is completely irrelevant to my point.

Between your values #1-8 and #9-10, which carry the greatest weight in decisionmaking?

If defending culture requires harm to the free market, is that a worthwhile trade?

If defending culture requires expanding government, is that a worthwhile trade?

If defending culture requires infringing upon personal property rights through means such as eminent domain, is that a worthwhile trade?


Do the ends of defending culture (values #9 and 10) justify the means of violating the other supposedly important values you listed?
 
erowe1 said:
No, I don't. Feel free to try and find a quote of me advocating either of those things.
Click to expand...

You've said many times you are for completely open borders. You have stood against any and all efforts to stop illegal immigration. That's the equivalent of no borders whatsoever and no national sovereignty.
 
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LibertyEagle said:
He more than just talked to them. He has been their poster boy sent he first went to Congress.
Click to expand...

Very true, though he proclaims to not be a member himself....where do you think the birches fall in all of this? I want to say they are Old Right instead of PaleoCon...is that accurate? Honest question, I'm not being witty
 
TheCount said:
That's quite a lot of pretty words saying nothing while nobly fighting several strawman arguments. I did not mention my opinion of white or western culture, or whether or not I felt it was superior or worth defending. All of that is completely irrelevant to my point.

Between your values #1-8 and #9-10, which carry the greatest weight in decisionmaking? I would say that they are all pretty equal in terms of worth and value, if you remove 1 plank, you are left with mediocrity. But if I had to just choose just 1 plank, it would be the first plank.

If defending culture requires harm to the free market, is that a worthwhile trade?

I'm not entirely sure how or why it would, but it really depends on how you mean free market. I consider myself allspice free market as anyone on here...but I believe in things such as borders. If that is all set violation of the free market, so be it. Now, by violating free market for culture....I think you misunderstood the absence of government in decision of culture. That would be societies job.

If defending culture requires expanding government, is that a worthwhile trade?

Again, what is defending culture. And, perhaps...but it is a fallacy to be so vague. I'll say this...if a group of people was attempting to impose say, Sharia Law in Boston...i wouldn't be okay with that, and while, in an ideal society, people would break that up, I would have no issue with government taking action to get rid of the pretender government.

If defending culture requires infringing upon personal property rights through means such as eminent domain, is that a worthwhile trade?

I'm not a big believer in eminent domain, and i went don't really see how culture has anything to do with property rights. So I guess no...but without knowing what you mean, I can't say for sure (like the rest of the points).

There is a difference between societal institutions and government institutions. Libertarian goovernment. Conservative (and I'm talking burke conservativism, not the modern statist theocratic crap) Society.



Do the ends of defending culture (values #9 and 10) justify the means of violating the other supposedly important values you listed

No....I don't think that I ever alluded to that. But I did make clear that the free market, individual liberty, property rights, and limited government are all apart of western culture....so there is that. I truly dont understand the hostility to western thought...you are literally spewing it out, in attempt to turn it on itself. It makes zero sense.

?
Click to expand...
If I misunderstood your assertion, allow me to make up for it in a few more pretty words.
 
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