Remember Dresden

WaltM

WaltM

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I have been to Dresden, and as an American with lots of German roots, I must say I felt sympathetic for the victims of the bombing, regardless of the "us" versus "them" mentality of some people.

Good to see people still commemorate this tragic day.
 
sirrealpolitik said:
I have been to Dresden, and as an American with lots of German roots, I must say I felt sympathetic for the victims of the bombing, regardless of the "us" versus "them" mentality of some people.

Good to see people still commemorate this tragic day.
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One of the biggest issues I have mixed feelings for , is whether civilians deserve to be punished for what their government does to other countries, especially if it's a free country.
 
WaltM said:
One of the biggest issues I have mixed feelings for , is whether civilians deserve to be punished for what their government does to other countries, especially if it's a free country.
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Really, you have mixed feelings about that?
 
Ever read "Slaughterhouse-Five?"

Annihilating Dresden was clearly an act of terrorism. I guess the history of wars are written by the people who win them.

I was recently in line in Walmart next to a man with a military jacket with a nuclear bomb squad insignia. He was old and smelled like pee. Sure, military is necessary for defending our borders, but you don't need to drop atomic bombs on people to defend your borders. Hopefully America will eventually grow out of its militarism.
 
furface said:
Ever read "Slaughterhouse-Five?"

Annihilating Dresden was clearly an act of terrorism.
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It was authorized by the government and done during a time of war, how is that terrorism?

I guess the history of wars are written by the people who win them.

I was recently in line in Walmart next to a man with a military jacket with a nuclear bomb squad insignia. He was old and smelled like pee.
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they're often bums.

Sure, military is necessary for defending our borders, but you don't need to drop atomic bombs on people to defend your borders. Hopefully America will eventually grow out of its militarism.
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yeah, I'm sure it was acceptable back then to think Japan & Germany were border threats.
 
There was some despicable documentary on tv the other day about WW2 and they were trying to justify the bombing of civilians.
 
furface said:
Interesting definition of terrorism you're implying.
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add to that, it was done by the winning team.

Aren't terrorist acts usually characterized as desperate rebellious incidents when a group or party can't be heard?
 
WWII sucks as far as this stuff is concerned. The problem with judging the rightness/wrongness of these acts in WWII is the fact that the enemy we were fighting wanted to do much worse to us, and was fully capable of doing it if we didn't pull out all the stops. We were fighting people who slaughtered innocents and treated the rules of war as toilet paper. The people who lived in those countries were also in full, active, support of the war effort due to the first truly global "total war." The Axis forced us into such desperate acts because otherwise the war could have dragged on forever, and Dresden would have wound up in rubble anyway.

People act like the outcome was certain as soon as the US entered or the Normandy Landings were successful. On the contrary, Germany was able to put up quite a fight right up into the last couple of months of the war. The war could have dragged on for years had we not responded to total war with total war.
 
nate895 said:
WWII sucks as far as this stuff is concerned. The problem with judging the rightness/wrongness of these acts in WWII is the fact that the enemy we were fighting wanted to do much worse to us, and was fully capable of doing it if we didn't pull out all the stops. We were fighting people who slaughtered innocents and treated the rules of war as toilet paper. The people who lived in those countries were also in full, active, support of the war effort due to the first truly global "total war." The Axis forced us into such desperate acts because otherwise the war could have dragged on forever, and Dresden would have wound up in rubble anyway.

People act like the outcome was certain as soon as the US entered or the Normandy Landings were successful. On the contrary, Germany was able to put up quite a fight right up into the last couple of months of the war. The war could have dragged on for years had we not responded to total war with total war.
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Total war with total war.


Nice.

The war was already won by the time Dresden happen, the same with Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Hitler went after the RAF. It wasn't 'till we started bombing Berlin that he got all emotional (against the wishes of his Luftwaffe) and switched his resources to bomb London.
 
furface said:
Ever read "Slaughterhouse-Five?"

Annihilating Dresden was clearly an act of terrorism. I guess the history of wars are written by the people who win them.

I was recently in line in Walmart next to a man with a military jacket with a nuclear bomb squad insignia. He was old and smelled like pee. Sure, military is necessary for defending our borders, but you don't need to drop atomic bombs on people to defend your borders. Hopefully America will eventually grow out of its militarism.
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Very Good Book!!!


slaughterhousefive.large.jpg
 
revolutionisnow said:
There was some despicable documentary on tv the other day about WW2 and they were trying to justify the bombing of civilians.
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Bombing of civilians in Japan was definitely justified.
1. Japan attacked our country without warning.
2. To defeat that country invasion of the mainland was going to be necessary inteligence knew civilians were going to fight to the death and many thousands of American lives were going to be lost. Thank God the atomic bomb was ready. Yes the bomb was terrible but many American lives and Jap lives were saved because of those two bombs. Not in those two city's true, but in total lives were saved.

Germany, history has shown that military targets should have been continued to be concentrated on instead of population centers with no military value.
 
nate895 said:
WWII sucks as far as this stuff is concerned. The problem with judging the rightness/wrongness of these acts in WWII is the fact that the enemy we were fighting wanted to do much worse to us, and was fully capable of doing it if we didn't pull out all the stops. We were fighting people who slaughtered innocents and treated the rules of war as toilet paper. The people who lived in those countries were also in full, active, support of the war effort due to the first truly global "total war." The Axis forced us into such desperate acts because otherwise the war could have dragged on forever, and Dresden would have wound up in rubble anyway.

People act like the outcome was certain as soon as the US entered or the Normandy Landings were successful. On the contrary, Germany was able to put up quite a fight right up into the last couple of months of the war. The war could have dragged on for years had we not responded to total war with total war.
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Not really, it was Churchill that starting bombing innocent civilians first. Hitler allowed it to continue for months before he responded in similar fashion. He was also opposed to building the atomic bomb, as he foresaw the huge casualties that would result from it. The winners write history as they see fit.

YouTube - Hitler and the Atom Bomb

Occupied France - looks really horrible, almost as bad as Iraq, Korea, or Vietnam

YouTube - Léo Marjane & Paris sous l'Occupation, 1942
 
Gleaner said:
Bombing of civilians in Japan was definitely justified.
1. Japan attacked our country without warning.
QUOTE]

Are you sure of this? Or just relying on what you've been told over the years?

I question the truth of your statement above.
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Gleaner said:
Bombing of civilians in Japan was definitely justified.
1. Japan attacked our country without warning.
2. To defeat that country invasion of the mainland was going to be necessary inteligence knew civilians were going to fight to the death and many thousands of American lives were going to be lost. Thank God the atomic bomb was ready. Yes the bomb was terrible but many American lives and Jap lives were saved because of those two bombs. Not in those two city's true, but in total lives were saved.

Germany, history has shown that military targets should have been continued to be concentrated on instead of population centers with no military value.
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"Jap" lives were saved. lol. Japan had been pursuing peace long before the bombs were dropped.

And if it was to be a show of our strength, why target civilian cities? Could have demonstrated the bombs awesome powers and not have killed 100 of thousands in the process.

Imperial powers vying for control of much of Asia, especially resources in places like Indo-China led to the conflict. US and Britain particularly were limiting Japans shipping and navy size.

Some argue sanctions are an act of war.

Japan attacked our Navy, hoping to bring us to the negotiating table over our conflicting interest in Asia. Navy vs. Navy for two imperialist powers in the region.

If our Navy was weakened, they thought we would be more likely to compromise. Of course we didn't. They miscalculated. The rest is history. There is overwhelming evidence that our leaders knew what our policies would lead to and that later we had prior knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack. We moved our carriers out to sea before hand.

FDR wanted a reason to get the non-interventionist Americans in the mood for war again. They were very reluctant after their experience in WWI.

It is ridiculous for anyone to argue Japan was ever a threat to America's homeland. They were just a threat to America's imperialist interest in Asia. And ironically, it was America that forced Japan to open up to the west with the treats of Commodore Perry in Tokyo Bay.
 
Gleaner said:
Bombing of civilians in Japan was definitely justified.
1. Japan attacked our country without warning.
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So we got one vote for "civilians pay for government actions"


2. To defeat that country invasion of the mainland was going to be necessary inteligence knew civilians were going to fight to the death and many thousands of American lives were going to be lost. Thank God the atomic bomb was ready. Yes the bomb was terrible
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Terrible or justified? Can't be both.

but many American lives and Jap lives were saved because of those two bombs. Not in those two city's true, but in total lives were saved.
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How were Japanese lives saved by that? How could anybody have killed Japanese any more than A-bombs do?

If you want to say American lives come before Japanese lives, just say it.

Germany, history has shown that military targets should have been continued to be concentrated on instead of population centers with no military value.
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so bombing is good, just not civilians?
 
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