'Red Team' proposed to sign off on drone strikes against Americans

I was talking about using them to locate that person. I don't think they should be armed at all, of course. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I still believe in that.

Me too. But of course that's not what's happening. Suspects are being blown away in their homes, often along with their neighbors; double taps used to take out the rescue workers. Nobody hardly ever mentions that the Constitution applies to all people, not just Americans. That was steamrolled by incrementalism so long ago that hardly anybody even in the liberty movement mentions it. And of course, now they have paved the way for "suspected" Americans to be taken out too (on foreign soil) and have already done so. The only question left is how long before the first drone kill in the US?
 
Isn't that wonderful? A Star Chamber, with power point presentations and rubber stamps.
 
I have spoken ad naseum about the trouble with drones being used domestically. I have given detailed accounts of how this technology will work to further invade on any semblance of privacy you thought you had. From drones used to monitor speed/issue tickets, to drones the size of a penny perched on the tree outside of your home to make sure you aren't burning on a no-burn day; And yes, to being armed with "less than lethal" devices such as mace and beanbag rounds for crowd disbursement as well as lethal devices for targeting and killing someone (for their lack of compliance).

The good these devices could do, delivering a pizza for example, are outweighed by the bad they will do. I will concede in the interest of freedom that private citizens ought be able to own and operate a drone. Insofar as it is well known and accepted that I keep the ones I capture... or destroy. If people wish to live in a virtual reality where every action needs be second guessed as to who may be watching, they ought to have the sense to recognize (and respect) that others do not. Idgaf about a owner's claim to property rights, if they violate one's airspace or are intruding on one's privacy, they should expect their drones to be taken down. When drones the size of a penny (or smaller) are flying around you will understand the meaning of "chilled." From the pedophile and perverts clamoring around to watch you and your children, to the stalkers and jealous exes spying and reporting your behavior. Spontaneity will be lost. Every action will be internally considered and second guessed.

And of course, the government ought not have drones. Idgaf if they say they are looking for stranded hikers. Incrementalism is incrementalism and precedence is precedence. They can go about their data collecting ways the old fashioned way, or summarily fuck off. The choice be theirs. And of course, at the least, 83% are actually worse than worthless (they are a weight.. or in other words, counterproductive). They should be let go without thought.
 
For those interested, here's the text of the relevant section in the Intelligence Authorization Act:

Subtitle B—Targeted Lethal Force Oversight

SEC. 311. TARGETED LETHAL FORCE OVERSIGHT REFORM.

(a) DEFINITIONS.—In this section:

(1) DIRECTOR.—The term ‘‘Director’’ means the Director of National Intelligence.

(2) UNITED STATES PERSON.—The term ‘‘United States person’’ means a citizen of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence (as defined in section 101(a)(20) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20))).

(b) ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS.—

(1) NOTIFICATION OF DIRECTOR.—Upon a determination by the head of an element of the intelligence community that a particular, known United States person is knowingly engaged in acts of international terrorism against the United States, such that the United States Government is considering the legality or the use of targeted lethal force against that United States person, the head of the element shall, as soon as practicable, notify the Director of the determination.

(2) INDEPENDENT ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS.—

(A) REQUIREMENT FOR ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS.—Not later than 15 days after the date the Director receives a notification under paragraph (1), the Director shall complete an independent alternative analysis (commonly referred to as ‘‘red-team analysis’’) of the information relied on to support the determination made under paragraph (1).

(B) INDEPENDENT LEADERSHIP.—In completing the independent alternative analysis required by subparagraph (A), the Director shall ensure that the individual appointed to lead such alternative analysis does not report to the head of the element of the intelligence community who made the determination under paragraph (1).

(3) NOTIFICATION OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.—As soon as practicable, the Director shall notify the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community of the receipt of a notification under paragraph (1).

(4) NOTIFICATION TO CONGRESS.—As soon as practicable, the Director shall notify the congressional intelligence committees, in writing, of the receipt of a notification under paragraph (1), including the identity of the United States person, and the results of the independent alternative analysis performed under paragraph (2), including any written product containing the alternative analysis, or if no product has been created, a summary of such analysis

(5) CONSTRUCTION WITH OTHER LAW.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to impede the ability of the United States Government to conduct any operation consistent with otherwise applicable law.

(c) INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY REVIEW.—On an annual basis the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community shall—

(1) conduct a review of any notifications received under subsection (b)(3) with respect to the element of the intelligence community’s compliance with all appropriate policies and procedures related to consideration of the use of targeted lethal force against a particular, known United States person; and

(2) submit to the Director and the congressional intelligence committees a report on the findings of such review.

(d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section may be construed to authorize the use of targeted lethal force against a United States person.
 
(5) CONSTRUCTION WITH OTHER LAW.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to impede the ability of the United States Government to conduct any operation consistent with otherwise applicable law.
//
 
(5) CONSTRUCTION WITH OTHER LAW.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to impede the ability of the United States Government to conduct any operation consistent with otherwise applicable law.
In case my point was lost, the applicable "laws" are considered a State Secret. Secret interpretations of by and large secret laws is what gives them the "authority," that they have claimed, to assassinate American citizens.

In late 2012, the ACLU and the New York Times sought information on the legal rationale for the kill program, specifically the strikes that had killed three US citizens—among them sixteen-year-old Abdulrahman Awlaki. In January 2013, a federal judge ruled on the request. In her decision, Judge Colleen McMahon appeared frustrated with the White House’s lack of transparency, writing that the Freedom of Information Act requests raised “serious issues about the limits on the power of the Executive Branch under the Constitution and laws of the United States, and about whether we are indeed a nation of laws, not of men.” She charged that the Obama administration “has engaged in public discussion of the legality of targeted killing, even of citizens, but in cryptic and imprecise ways, generally without citing to any statute or court decision that justifies its conclusions.” She added, “More fulsome disclosure of the legal reasoning on which the Administration relies to justify the targeted killing of individuals, including United States citizens, far from any recognizable ‘hot’ field of battle, would allow for intelligent discussion and assessment of a tactic that (like torture before it) remains hotly debated. It might also help the public understand the scope of the ill-defined yet vast and seemingly ever-growing exercise.”

Ultimately, Judge McMahon blocked the release of the documents. Citing her legal concerns about the state of transparency with regard to the kill program, she wrote:

This Court is constrained by law, and under the law, I can only conclude that the Government has not violated FOIA by refusing to turn over the documents sought in the FOIA requests, and so cannot be compelled by this court of law to explain in detail the reasons why its actions do not violate the Constitution and laws of the United States. The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me; but after careful and extensive consideration, I find myself stuck in a paradoxical situation in which I cannot solve a problem because of contradictory constraints and rules—a veritable Catch-22. I can find no way around the thicket of laws and precedents that effectively allow the Executive Branch of our Government to proclaim as perfectly lawful certain actions that seem on their face incompatible with our Constitution and laws, while keeping the reasons for their conclusion a secret.

Jeremy Scahill. Dirty Wars (Kindle Locations 10243-10253). Nation Books.
 
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I'll remind you that Rand's filibuster was solely about droning Americans on American soil. And he seems ok with the idea of doing that to fight crime. That's incrementalism.

I think he really, really goofed up on the way he worded that, but I don't really think he supports that. I don't think he really thought through the implications of what he said.

Ron gives his son some grace, I think, but only so much. If Rand truly hated liberty I think Ron would stop supporting him. If Rand was flat out opposing liberty like Lindsey Graham and Ron was still supporting him, I'd probably rethink my position on Ron, but I don't think that's the case. Rand isn't my ideal but he's the best (or at least the least bad) senator, easy.
 
It won't be long before we have drone flyovers before sporting events. Let freedom ring :rolleyes:
 
Glad they are taking responsibility for oversight. The president should not have final say over neutralizing American threat
 
How about we get a panel of a jury of our peers at the least, if we can't be notified of a trial first?

I don't want to get incinerated in a rain of hellfire missiles because the right hand of the red team blue/team paradigm agreed with the left hand.

What good is US citizenship abroad if it wont even guarantee you constitutional rights from your own country? Oh well, at least I get to still file taxes! They'll never take that away from me! At least I have that.
 
With a warrant for a specific, limited purpose. Look, you're not going to stop technology. Personally, I think computers have done far more harm to our liberty, than good, but there was never a hope of stopping them. In my opinion, what you have to do is to constrain their use.


Computers haven't hurt our freedom any more than guns have. It is the users who misuse these kinds of items and technology who are to blame.
 
It appears to be news to you that there is a fight going on in the Republican Party. The libertarian-leaning Rs against the totalitarian leftist Rs.

Oh, but if this is supposed to be yet another quittertarian thread, please excuse me. Carry on.
I thought it was the libertarian-leaning Rs vs Neocon Rs vs Conservative Rs vs fascist totalitarian Rs vs all the other Rs. I kinda wish all the different Rs and Ds could splinter off into different parties so they might become relevant and worthwhile. :/
 
This guy.

I'm not sure if serious.

The DNI is oversight?
In case some are unaware, there are [at least] two separate kill lists. One conducted by JSOC (the Joint Special Operations Command) and one by the CIA. The Director of National Intelligence is already very much involved in the decision making process of who to kill. Whether American or not, their blood spills the same... their families mourn the same. The DNI has been often a particularly shocking example of criminality- War criminality. John Negroponte, Dennis Blair... James Clapper.... This is oversight? These men have been around the worst atrocities of US foreign policy for decades.
 
I'm sure Rubio has spoken favorably about the constitution many times.
 
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