Reconciling libertarianism and religion

[WRellim]

My point here is...I understand the perspective that heaven/hell mythology can be fearful thing to believe in and quite a potential burden to put on a child, but...just like you teach your kids what you believe because you love them and want the best for them, so do Christians. They teach their kids because they genuinely believe - and without trying to force your own religion (or lack thereof) on them, either through unsolicited pestering or through government force, there's just nothing you can do about it.

Wish you would ditch the huge type and all... because most people are NOT going to bother reading to your last paragraph, which is the PURE GOLD.

The question here is the most basic WHO gets to determine WHAT is taught to their own offspring.

What it boils down to is that the OP is essentially contending is essentially that only ATHEISTS have the ONE TRUE RELIGION and therefore THEIR religion is the one that should be taught (and all others -- being some horrid form of child abuse -- should be strictly verboten). The OP is the very thing he is complaining about -- he is a THEOCRAT (he just happens to be an A-THEOCRAT).

Yet he still has the GALL to call himself a libertarian.

Ironic. Hypocritical, Arrogant, and just plain wrong.

 

[Mini-Me]

Hehe thanks...I got rid of the huge-type rant.

I posted a comment months ago, but I think it's also worth mentioning here, kind of jokingly, but kind of seriously: Even if you're the most militant atheist alive, it might be in your best interests for there to be as many Christians as possible, and the more fundamentalist, the better. After all, the more people that believe RFID implants are literally the mark of the beast (when they certainly are in any symbolic sense), the better chances we'll all have of successfully resisting such a travesty if and when it comes to pass.

 

[bojo68]

This is mostly for minime. I tend to think that while I can see your point about parents teaching kids,(I was one of them that they tried that on) I think religion and the religious have demonstrated if nothing else that their ideas take a little doing to figure out. That's why after a couple of thousand years they still have bible studys to figure out one book. If it were something a 2 or 5 year old could reasonably comprehend, you'd think they could have finished their book review a little sooner.
My point is that indoctrinating kids isn't doing anybody any favor. If you really want your kid give an open minded consideration, and thereby be a real believer if that's their choice, wait until they're at least developed enough to think and make logical decisions for themselves.

 

[bojo68]

Given your statements (and the positions inherent in them) I assert that you are actually not a libertarian. Three simple questions will demonstrate this:

1) Which religions/faiths/philosophies/belief systems would you allow to be taught, and which would you deny?

2) How would you execute this?

3) Who would you place in charge of making the choices, and give authority to for its enforcement, and why?

I'll answer that.

1. NONE taught, all denied.
2. Very simply, teach science not religion.
3. Somebody that understands that public money can't be used for religion.

 

[Mini-Me]

I'll answer that.

1. NONE taught, all denied.
2. Very simply, teach science not religion.
3. Somebody that understands that public money can't be used for religion.

I think he was referring to what should be allowed to be taught by parents, not public schools. Just, erm...to clear up a misunderstanding before you two duke it out

 

[bojo68]

I think he was referring to what should be allowed to be taught by parents, not public schools. Just, erm...to clear up a misunderstanding before you two duke it out

Heh, ok, but "allowed to be taught by parents" is a whole nuther BIG bag of worms, and we've got enough for the time being...

 

[Truth Warrior]

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." -- Thomas Jefferson

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The way to silence religious disputes is to take no notice of them." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[pcosmar]

I generally stay out of these, But I have some change jingling in my pocket, so I will throw in a couple coppers.
I do not consider myself "religious" But am a Christian believer. by no means perfect.
I I have been described as/accused of,being an anarchist. That is incorrect. Though I have some libertarian views, I am not a Libertarian.
I am an Independent Individualist. And an Angry American.

Now, in my youth and upbringing I was raised in a religious home and taught/ indoctrinated in the church that my parents went to. I was involved is church activities and active in the choir, plays etc.
I even went to a private school for a short time. I hated it.
I pretty much rejected all of it when I left home, as do many.
My present faith I came to through my own life, study and searching.

It had little to do with any"programing"I received as a child.
Each person will make these decisions for them self, regardless of school or home life.

We are promised (by the Constitution) a freedom OF religion. It is each persons individual choice.
Nowhere are we promised freedom FROM religion.
Come to your own decision and live your own life. You can teach, or hope to inspire, but you have no right to control others.

 

[allyinoh]

I generally stay out of these, But I have some change jingling in my pocket, so I will throw in a couple coppers.
I do not consider myself "religious" But am a Christian believer. by no means perfect.
I I have been described as/accused of,being an anarchist. That is incorrect. Though I have some libertarian views, I am not a Libertarian.
I am an Independent Individualist. And an Angry American.

Now, in my youth and upbringing I was raised in a religious home and taught/ indoctrinated in the church that my parents went to. I was involved is church activities and active in the choir, plays etc.
I even went to a private school for a short time. I hated it.
I pretty much rejected all of it when I left home, as do many.
My present faith I came to through my own life, study and searching.

It had little to do with any"programing"I received as a child.
Each person will make these decisions for them self, regardless of school or home life.

We are promised (by the Constitution) a freedom OF religion. It is each persons individual choice.
Nowhere are we promised freedom FROM religion.
Come to your own decision and live your own life. You can teach, or hope to inspire, but you have no right to control others.

Thank you for sharing this. I agree with you. I take offense to people who talk about Christianity and say things like, "it's oppressive, it's mind control, etc." I went to church willingly. My parents always told me that it was my choice to attend or not, it was my choice to be part of functions. I made the choice myself.

I did not lead a sheltered life full of nothing but the Word of God and never did anything because my "religion" didn't allow me to.

I'm not perfect either, but I am a Christian. I don't go to church, I read the Bible every so often, and for God's sake I have been down some roads no one wants to go, but still remains my faith in God.

So, I think it's just people's excuse to say that religion is oppressive and mind controlling, it's not. Yea there are always going to be parents who force their children to go to church and things like that but what happens afterwards is they, like you said, turn away but eventually they come back around their own way.

I especially agree with your last sentence. I think it's important to realize that it's everyone's choice what they believe in and what they teach their children and it's no one else's business. If I want to teach my child that they were created by a loving and awesome God, that's my choice. If someone wants to tell their child that they are related to apes, that's their choice. And neither one of us should force our views on eachother.

This is why I don't think evolution or creationism should be taught in public schools, but that's another story. All I can say is that if I ever have children I will keep them as far away from public schools as possible... Talk about mind controlling and oppressive!

 

[bojo68]

Just wanna agree with most of the latest posts, and while I don't think it's right to program kids before they're mature enough to think things through for themselves, I certainly don't think govt. should play any role in it whatsoever.