Reason Magazine supports forced vaccinations; "no libertarian case for vaccine refusal"

[Ender]

I can assure you that reading Natural News makes you an expert in absolutely nothing. The "science" that Adams touts is laughable to anybody who paid attention in 8th grade biology.

I believe that drunk drivers should be allowed to try to make it home safely, even though their bad choices might indeed endanger someone else. I'm certainly not about to cry that vaccines should be mandated.

But I also won't let the drunken idiots try to tell today's young people that there's really no bigger odds of having an accident if they make that choice.

Read the article angelic; it has references and I promise you won't die from it.

 

[DamianTV]

There is a lot of debate as to whether or not vaccines are both safe, and effective.

What should NOT be at the heart of the debate is the Infringement of anyones Right to decide for themselves whether to be vaccinated or not. ANY Forced Action by one person on to another is a violation of the very principles of Liberty. This is where Reason Magazine has made its most fatal error in this statement.

 

[angelatc]

Read the article angelic; it has references and I promise you won't die from it.

So much for your reading comprehension. I didn't say it didn't have references. I said it didn't belong in this thread.

 

[angelatc]

There is a lot of debate as to whether or not vaccines are both safe, and effective.
.

No, there is no legitimate debate about whether vaccines are safe and effective.

 

[bolil]

There is a lot of debate as to whether or not vaccines are both safe, and effective.

What should NOT be at the heart of the debate is the Infringement of anyones Right to decide for themselves whether to be vaccinated or not. ANY Forced Action by one person on to another is a violation of the very principles of Liberty. This is where Reason Magazine has made its most fatal error in this statement.

Precisely. Reason tipped their hand, and if we were serious they would be ridiculed and reminded of this constantly. Forced vaccinations? How about compulsory schooling? Hypocrite website. Vive les RPF.

 

[bolil]

No, there is no legitimate debate about whether vaccines are safe and effective.

Oh no? Funny, I had a vaccination for something when I was young and wound up with sepsis. Almost died, as a baby, because of vaccination.

Right, the debate is over, both sides are full of shit. Make your own choice, and when let strangers stick your kids with needles keep in mind God will not hold them accountable, but you.

I heard cutting babies foreskins off was a good for preventing cheese-dick later on. Let's go violate some babies! Tis for the future, which we already sold. Try mandating vaccinations, give it a shot, fuck if anything needed a shot it was whatever the fuck is called a revolution.

They ain't our children, just children, savvy? You can't pass a law that violates their rights, and if you want to then wtf are you doing here? Huffpo loves that type.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Dude- this I know:

If YOU were coughing your lungs out at WalMart that you would NOT infect me with an airborne communicable disease, and if you did, I'd soon be over it. I am healthy and do not succumb to illness.

Also- vaccines are BS. The AMA & Big Pharma distort to make it seem like they cure when they do not. Smallpox, for instance, was not wiped out by vaccine. It was wiped out by clean living. Countries that did not vaccinate had almost NO deaths because of smallpox, as compared to countries that used the vaccine and had 10's of 1000's of deaths.

If you want to vaccinated, go for it; you try and force me and mine and we'll have a serious problem.

Contumacious's post just shows you the culture of fear that vaccination "science" has created by stipulating that "herd immunity" is a must. Now, it's all of a sudden everyone's business whether you choose to inject yourself because, hey, it affects everyone, right? No, but it's a convenient way to get everyone to comply, isn't it? Now, instead of the clear lines we have between aggression and non-aggression, we have self-proclaimed libertarians who choose to muddy the waters by quantifying airborne pathogens as a type of force. God help us all.

 

[Ender]

No, there is no legitimate debate about whether vaccines are safe and effective.

And, so much for YOUR reading comprehension- sorry if it's over your head.

And this thread is precisely where it belongs.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Should breathing be illegal then?

 

[2young2vote]

Forced vaccination sounds like something we would get with nationalized healthcare. We all take risks in life, but reducing risks should be voluntary, not mandatory. I drive as little and safely as possible because I do not want to get into a potentially life-threatening crash, but I am still taking the risk. Just like reducing the risk of damage in a car crash, you can reduce the risk of sickness each year (supposedly) by getting vaccinated. Someone who does want to reduce their risk of getting sick can get vaccinated, someone who doesn't want a reduced risk can simply not get vaccinated.

 

[Ender]

Oh no? Funny, I had a vaccination for something when I was young and wound up with sepsis. Almost died, as a baby, because of vaccination.

Right, the debate is over, both sides are full of shit. Make your own choice, and when let strangers stick your kids with needles keep in mind God will not hold them accountable, but you.

I heard cutting babies foreskins off was a good for preventing cheese-dick later on. Let's go violate some babies! Tis for the future, which we already sold. Try mandating vaccinations, give it a shot, fuck if anything needed a shot it was whatever the fuck is called a revolution.

They ain't our children, just children, savvy? You can't pass a law that violates their rights, and if you want to then wtf are you doing here? Huffpo loves that type.

Had a cousin that went deaf because of a polio vaccination.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So , from your standpoint , spreading infectious diseases is an individual right?

.

Way to twist the issue. If by "spreading infectious diseases" you mean have a social life, go outside the confines of my room and interact with people, then you're damn right I'm saying that. The risk of getting sick is a risk we take by exposing ourselves to society. People used to understand that you can't blame the transfer of pathogens on anyone who is not said pathogen, but I guess they didn't have a centralized bureaucracy to deal with these things, did they?

 

[bolil]

Way to twist the issue. If by "spreading infectious diseases" you mean have a social life, go outside the confines of my room and interact with people, then you're damn right I'm saying that. The risk of getting sick is a risk we take by exposing ourselves to society. People used to understand that you can't blame the transfer of pathogens on anyone who is not said pathogen, but I guess they didn't have a centralized bureaucracy to deal with these things, did they?

Furthermore, any pathogen is possessed of its own intellect, its own will. Would hold culpable a land owner from whose property a deer emerged and killed a motorist?

That land owner should have taken preventative measures, no? Like a vaccine, for deer, AKA claymore mines.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

No it does not always get dodged by the pro-science crowd. It's just that the anti-science crowd apparently stick their fingers in their ears and yell LALALALALA every time it's explained why it isn't actually that simple.

Then about a day later, they again state, "That always gets dodged by the vaxxers," pretending that nobody ever thought of THAT before.

It is one of the most annoying things about the blatant dishonesty in the cult that I can think of.

Talk about cult behavior, why don't we discuss your willingness to blindly trust what strangers tell you because they have "authority"? Yes, a degree and a consensus is all you need to soak up the absolute truth of the world like a sponge while those who oppose you are inferior specimens. Must be nice.

SCIENCE IS MY JEEZUS!!

 

[angelatc]

First, whom is to blame?

It's all hypothetical, but my answer is the person who made the choice not to get vaccinated and then spread the disease is to blame. The precedent is there in the case of STDs. If Bob gives Jane herpes, she can sue him. He could try to collect damages from the person who gave him the disease, but that does not alleviate his responsibility to Jane.

Driving a an individual choice, made spontaneously. In other words, drunk ain't contagious.'

But the anaolgy was not that getting drunk was contagious. The analogy was that getting drunk was akin to not getting a vaccine, in the respect that your choice could end up causing harm to another, albeit inadvertantly.

Honestly, as far as I am concerned, by even being on a road you assume a staggering level of responsibility for your own well being. Same with going to Walmart. Perhaps the boys in blue should administer flu tests before entry into any public place, right? For the kids or whatever the fuck. Shit, debtors prison has been done away with but it was a good racket while it lasted. Lets replace it with containment. Common cold? Rape cage.

We were talking about civil court last time I checked.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I've been here for what - six years? I've read practically every blog post and trash article the anti-vaxxers have thrown out there, and I've spent hours pointing out why they're wrong and what they're lying about.

So how dare you say I am unwilling to find out the truth, when it always comes down to some dark shadow conspiracy that requires natural cynics like me to set aside facts and simply "believe."

I am in awe of your inability to see your own gullibility. You simply believe the scientists, but hey, that's okay because scientists are an absolute good and cannot be questioned... especially when there's government funding involved. We all know that government makes things better and more accurate. Never mind qualified dissenting opinions either, because by virtue of the fact that they dissent, they have disqualified themselves from being qualified.

 

[angelatc]

Oh no? Funny, I had a vaccination for something when I was young and wound up with sepsis. Almost died, as a baby, because of vaccination.

Right, the debate is over, both sides are full of shit. Make your own choice, and when let strangers stick your kids with needles keep in mind God will not hold them accountable, but you.

I heard cutting babies foreskins off was a good for preventing cheese-dick later on. Let's go violate some babies! Tis for the future, which we already sold. Try mandating vaccinations, give it a shot, fuck if anything needed a shot it was whatever the fuck is called a revolution.

They ain't our children, just children, savvy? You can't pass a law that violates their rights, and if you want to then wtf are you doing here? Huffpo loves that type.

This is why there's no use talking to an ideologue. You guys all end up debunking your own strawmen. Nobody here is arguing for mandatory vaccines, so you can stop trilling about that.

Again, there is no absolutely real debate over vaccines. Almost all medical doctors, scientists, research technicians, healthcare administrators, and anybody with an ounce of common sense agree that vaccines are safe, effective, and lifesaving not because they've been brainwashed by the MSM, not because the government lies about everything just because it can, but because there is a HUGE body of evidence demonstrating both the efficacy and safety of vaccines.

The small annoying vocal minority that argues against the use of vaccines consists of non-scientific “alternative” healthcare peddlers and their gullible victims.

A legitimate debate requires evidence on both sides of the debate. Seeing as there is simply absolutely no evidence that vaccines do no actually protect us or een do harm en masse, there simply is no real debate.

 

[bolil]

It's all hypothetical, but my answer is the person who made the choice not to get vaccinated and then spread the disease is to blame. The precedent is there in the case of STDs. If Bob gives Jane herpes, she can sue him. He could try to collect damages from the person who gave him the disease, but that does not alleviate his responsibility to Jane.




But the anaolgy was not that getting drunk was contagious. The analogy was that getting drunk was akin to not getting a vaccine, in the respect that your choice could end up causing harm to another, albeit inadvertantly.



We were talking about civil court last time I checked.

If Jane fucked Bob, it is on her. If Jane is too horny to consider STDs, or if she is too stupid to think about them, those herpes are hers. If she is aware, and some other dumb-fuck sleeps with her and contracts herpes ITS ON HIM. Responsibility for your own actions. If someone rapes Jane and she contracts herpes, well that fuck can spend the rest of his life in prison supporting her. And if Jane, and her family desires, they can have a barbeque once a year where they kick the shit out of him.

 

[bolil]

This is why there's no use talking to an ideologue. You guys all end up debunking your own strawmen.

Again, there is no absolutely real debate over vaccines. Almost all medical doctors, scientists, research technicians, healthcare administrators, and anybody with an ounce of common sense agree that vaccines are safe, effective, and lifesaving not because they've been brainwashed by the MSM but because there is a HUGE body of evidence demonstrating both the efficacy and safety of vaccines.

The small annoying vocal minority that argues against the use of vaccines consists of non-scientific “alternative” healthcare peddlers and their gullible victims.

A legitimate debate requires evidence on both sides of the debate. Seeing as there is simply absolutely no evidence that vaccines do no actually protect us or een do harm en masse, there simply is no real debate.

Yet here we are debating. I guess it isn't real to some people unless it is followed with a dot gov. I don't give a fuck if every doctor in the world said, "Vaccinate everyone," the fact remains that if you are going to stick a needle in me, you better fucking kill me... we know how that ends.

Vocal minority? When do you get off? Yeah? No debate? Then why did I almost die before i even started recording memories on account of a vaccine? Sepsis is a bitch, all it takes is a penetration. How do needles work again?

Now, lets talk about antibiotics. What is happening, now that they are being over prescribed? (It goes into the pro forced vaccination crowd's ridiculous, and blatantly hypocritical, sentiments about public health

 

[angelatc]

And, so much for YOUR reading comprehension- sorry if it's over your head.

And this thread is precisely where it belongs.

If you think a piece claiming that the 2009/10 H1N1 vaccine program was ineffective and shrouded in mystery should be debunked in a thread about mandatory vaccines, then I can only assume your brain organizes information much differently than mine does. Because logically, I can't make any sense out of your position.

But I do know that adding a Cosby YouTube into any argument automatically seriously serves to undermines any position of authority you may have had.

I mean, seriously?