Reason Magazine supports forced vaccinations; "no libertarian case for vaccine refusal"

[NewRightLibertarian]

Exactly my point and why I posted that and revived this thread.

There is no middle ground.

If you grant that the state has the right to shackle you down and inject a drug into against your will, for some perceived greater good, then the state has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to you.

Tone down that talk. We need to have a 'big tent' and your rhetoric might make some campus liberals angry, and we can't have that!

 

[Anti Federalist]

But whether I should be allowed to make health decisions that can potentially negate the decisions of others to vaccinate is another question.

If you answer is "no" then that is the logic that enables this:

Looks like freedom to me.

 

[PRB]

The world would definitely be a much better place if a whole lot of people would just commit suicide, or at least get spayed/neutered.

Nonetheless, no one should be in a position where it would be too easy for them to make that kind of decision for others.

That would be the "bad kind" of eugenics, as opposed to the "nice kind" that people should also teach their children about.

Admitted eugenicist, good to hear.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

If you don't want to get sick, then get a vaccine. Boom, you're covered! Why do you need to force vaccines on people who don't want them?

 

[Petar]

Admitted eugenicist, good to hear.

Alleged admitted eugenicist.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

No it does not always get dodged by the pro-science crowd. It's just that the anti-science crowd apparently stick their fingers in their ears and yell LALALALALA every time it's explained why it isn't actually that simple.

Then about a day later, they again state, "That always gets dodged by the vaxxers," pretending that nobody ever thought of THAT before.

It is one of the most annoying things about the blatant dishonesty in the cult that I can think of.

Lloyd Pye.

 

[Madison320]

If you don't want to get sick, then get a vaccine. Boom, you're covered! Why do you need to force vaccines on people who don't want them?

I think you nailed it right there. I have to admit when I first read the article in Reason I thought they had a point, although I disagreed. But you're absolutely right, all you need to do is voluntarily take the vaccine, you don't need to force it on someone else. I feel dumb for missing that! Dang.

What about forced quarantine for something really deadly that has no vaccine?

Even though I disagree with Reason magazine on this I think it's wrong to brand them as an enemy. They're right most of the time.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

What about forced quarantine for something really deadly that has no vaccine?

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

How can we trust vaccines when we can't even trust the people who make them?

 

[BucksforPaul]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

You just don't understand their great contribution to the liberty movement. From never having any success promoting the beliefs to attempting to destroy Ron Paul's campaign out of jealousy to defending forced vaccinations and denigrating the non-aggression principle, these guys have really been exemplars for freedom.

 

[Ender]

This is a tricky one. And actually I think we would need to do this if the illness is really deadly. Some of these viruses are really scary, such as the Ebola virus, and can become a global threat very quickly.

The hard part is getting competent people in high places who can make and execute these decisions based on the real objective scientific data regarding the speed of transmission, the method of transmission, and the deadliness of the illness. We don't want to put people in concentration camps because of "swine flu" or some other idiotic media frenzy.

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

No, you are misrepresenting what I'm saying. Carefully read the comment I was replying too. If there is an extremely deadly virus with no vaccine, such as an airborn strain of ebola (no vaccine, 90%+ fatality rate) that has the potential to wipe out the world, then we need to take steps to quarantine the infected people.

If the virus is something even more insanely virulent, such as one of these biological warfare concoctions (imagine 100% fatality rate, massive communicability), then it may become necessary to kill the infected people. It's a hard thing to say, especially on a libertarian website, I hope you can take my point as a logical one, rather than an emotional one.

 

[TruckinMike]

Is it just me or does Reason Magazine print a lot of Unreasonable things?

When I think of Reason Magazine I think of all the deaths, torture, and pain that country after country have handed down to their own citizenry. This pain and suffering is usually created by some power mad freak. But brought to fruition with the help of some jack-ass with good intentions. One of those jack-asses in today's world is Reason Magazine.

 

[Madison320]

How can we trust vaccines when we can't even trust the people who make them?

He wasn't talking about vaccines. Quaratines with no vaccine.

 

[Madison320]

Good grief.

Let's put all the non-vaxers in concentration camps because they are a threat to the health of all the vaccinated?

And this non-logic is supposed to say that vaccinations work?

Not talking about vaccines.

On a slightly different topic, I asked this earlier. Would you get the rabies shots if you were bitten by a rabid dog?

 

[Deborah K]

Tone down that talk. We need to have a 'big tent' and your rhetoric might make some campus liberals angry, and we can't have that!

I doubt anyone believes the 'big tent' would include a belief that forced vaccination promotes liberty. Hopefully 'big tent' means diverse groups with a common foundational belief in the individual freedom to think, feel, believe, act, and do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. (And no, I don't mean hurt someone's feelings. )

 

[Ender]

Not talking about vaccines.

On a slightly different topic, I asked this earlier. Would you get the rabies shots if you were bitten by a rabid dog?

Depends on the circumstances; there is now reports of rabies being cured w/o vaccinations.

BUT- the issue here is 'forced' vaccinations.

If someone wants to be vaccinated, for whatever reason, then they should have the freedom to do so; AND if one chooses not to be vaccinated, they should also have that freedom of choice.

 

[BucksforPaul]

When I think of Reason Magazine I think of all the deaths, torture, and pain that country after country have handed down to their own citizenry. This pain and suffering is usually created by some power mad freak. But brought to fruition with the help of some jack-ass with good intentions. One of those jack-asses in today's world is Reason Magazine.

+rep for a great and succinct analysis.

 

[rambone]

REASON: Are the Unvaccinated Legally Responsible?

One alleged measles death in 12 years. Hysteria ensues.

Reason Magazine wastes no time using the opportunity to advance its forced drug agenda.

Immune Compromised Woman Dies of Measles: Are the Unvaccinated Legally Responsible? | Reason.com

This follows up exactly with Ronald Bailey's article from 2013, where he argued for using government to punish and harass unvaccinated people.

I read a number of articles on this subject, and although there is plenty of hysterical ravings to go around, Reason is the only one I found actually advancing this point of going after unvaccinated people. Even some of the most rabidly statist outlets don't go this far.

FYI: Ironically, the deceased woman was already vaccinated for measles, but died anyway. Apparently she was on a whole bunch of different pharmaceutical drugs, and her immune system was compromised. The vaccine didn't give her immunity, and she died in a hospital. But nevermind that; the real problem is other patients having too much freedom.