RATM playing at same time as GOP/RP Rally

[BarryDonegan]

I had the displeasure of meeting Zach De La Rocha during my out-in-L.A. flyering street punk years. he was unwilling to accept a flyer for a punk rock show, with incredible disdain. I was flyering everyone at the event and most everyone else was willing to take one.

He is supposed to be an old school hardcore kid, and not accepting flyers for D.I.Y. punk rock events is by no means ethically acceptable in that community. Especially when you are parading around as a power-to-the-people anti-corporate rock band on a major label that turns millions around for corporations.
'
everyone has a right to their own opinion, of course, but I have numerous examples of actions those guys have done which are ethically inconsistent and seem more like profiteering than any actual counterculture or fight towards legitimate change. that event with the flyer was way over the line, though, I understand that it can be slightly annoying in L.A., but everyone I know who actually lives inside that scene not only takes the flyers, but is curious as to what is going on with bands at that level.

 

[mediahasyou]

All Paul supporters should go to the rage against the machine concert. It is the day after the rally. Many ratm fans are the antistate, anarchist type. These minds are very close to our beliefs. Therefore, waking up many of these people would be a piece of cake.

 

[G-Wohl]

Karl Marx? These guys are communists, not liberty lovers.

They are a lot more influenced by Allen Ginsburg than Karl Marx. So much so, in fact, that I'd say they lean more libertarian than socialist. They've performed pieces openly expressing their displeasure for the FBI, the CIA, and the DEA. Their songs are often about breaking away from the establishment, and individuality. How is that socialistic?

BTW: Not a Rage Against the Machine fan.

 

[BarryDonegan]

they are libertarian-socialist. or collectivist anarchist. it is the leading political movement inside of the punk/hardcore scene, and has been a long time problem for me, as I am in a full time touring punk/hardcore/experimental band and because of our political rep we play a lot of those types of functions.

as a libertarian who leans market-anarchist, i always get into some crazy discussions. typically I fall back on the fact that libertarianism is a practical, possible way to prevent tyranny, whereas libertarian socialism is a fun experiment you can have, only if you have a market libertarian, jeffersonian federal government. I've yet to have any of them beat that argument.

aka, you can have your little collectivist commune, so long as you are all willing, but only if you give us the job of keeping the centralized government from taking your right to free associate without taxation, interference, and regulation.

also, you have to tell them you support overturning the personhood of the corporation, this will let them understand that libertarianism is the opposite of corporatism, which they typically do not understand.

 

[acptulsa]

Ralph Nader is a socialist. Yeah, but he's a socialist who wants the people to have power and is doing what he can to kick the crooks out. So? He's a socialist...

Dennis Kuchinich is a socialist. Yeah, but he's a socialist who wants the people to have power and is doing what he can to kick the crooks out. So? He's a socialist...

Willie Nelson is a socialist. Yeah, but he's a socialist who wants the people to have power and is doing what he can to kick the crooks out. So? He's a socialist...

How many verses does this same song need?

By the way, I still say we get all the allies we can, kick the crooks out, and work out our compromises as best we can later.

 

[mediahasyou]

they are libertarian-socialist. or collectivist anarchist. it is the leading political movement inside of the punk/hardcore scene, and has been a long time problem for me, as I am in a full time touring punk/hardcore/experimental band and because of our political rep we play a lot of those types of functions.

as a libertarian who leans market-anarchist, i always get into some crazy discussions. typically I fall back on the fact that libertarianism is a practical, possible way to prevent tyranny, whereas libertarian socialism is a fun experiment you can have, only if you have a market libertarian, jeffersonian federal government. I've yet to have any of them beat that argument.

aka, you can have your little collectivist commune, so long as you are all willing, but only if you give us the job of keeping the centralized government from taking your right to free associate without taxation, interference, and regulation.

also, you have to tell them you support overturning the personhood of the corporation, this will let them understand that libertarianism is the opposite of corporatism, which they typically do not understand.

thats where im at right now.

No one here should oppose communism. Except, when communism uses coercion.

 

[RevolutionSD]

Actually, I truly believe that if RATM sat down with Ron Paul and talked they'd be converted. I think a lot of people are like this. They're just so wrapped up in MSM propoganda that they can't see anything else. It can be hard to break through but the seeds of liberty are in every American (or person).

RATM are not wrapped up in msm propaganda. Listen to their song, Bullet In Your Head for proof.

They are, however, communist anarchists (seems like an oxymoron to me), and I doubt they would grab on to libertarianism, although it is nice to think they would.

 

[mediahasyou]

RATM are not wrapped up in msm propaganda. Listen to their song, Bullet In Your Head for proof.

They are, however, communist anarchists (seems like an oxymoron to me), and I doubt they would grab on to libertarianism, although it is nice to think they would.

communist anarchism and market anarchism are a branch of the same idea.

 

[BarryDonegan]

communist anarchism and market anarchism are a branch of the same idea.

not to guys like RATM. they feel that regulation is necessary to prevent corporate takeover... same with Jello Biafra, and types like that.

I always ask them, WHO can do this regulating without becoming corrupt?

they say DEMOCRACY! without realizing that once democracy votes to regulate, it creates a beauracracy, which has to become a corporation in case it needs to be represented in court....

BAM. back where we started... roll this forward 100 years and the Clothing and Health Adminstration is a child sex slavery ring with an overhead cost of 100 trillion dollars and about 100,000$ of it making it to hungry and sick people.

if they could just accept that their system works as a local commune, and ours works as a larger system to protect their smaller one, we all win. I have gotten about 20 or 30% of the people i talk to in that community to support that.

the way you can tell guys like RATM don't believe in it, is because of their national reputation. if they believed that liberty could lead to a society which they would enjoy following the methods of karl marx, they would focus on the national liberty aspect of their message, not the socialist anti-capitalist parts.

collectivist socialists who are anti-capitalist betray an ignorance as to what capitalism is. they should be anti corporate, because capitalism promotes happiness for everyone, corporatism, which is financed on debt and failure, is what exploits workers.

 

[mediahasyou]

not to guys like RATM. they feel that regulation is necessary to prevent corporate takeover... same with Jello Biafra, and types like that.

I always ask them, WHO can do this regulating without becoming corrupt?

they say DEMOCRACY! without realizing that once democracy votes to regulate, it creates a beauracracy, which has to become a corporation in case it needs to be represented in court....

BAM. back where we started... roll this forward 100 years and the Clothing and Health Adminstration is a child sex slavery ring with an overhead cost of 100 trillion dollars and about 100,000$ of it making it to hungry and sick people.

if they could just accept that their system works as a local commune, and ours works as a larger system to protect their smaller one, we all win. I have gotten about 20 or 30% of the people i talk to in that community to support that.

the way you can tell guys like RATM don't believe in it, is because of their national reputation. if they believed that liberty could lead to a society which they would enjoy following the methods of karl marx, they would focus on the national liberty aspect of their message, not the socialist anti-capitalist parts.

collectivist socialists who are anti-capitalist betray an ignorance as to what capitalism is. they should be anti corporate, because capitalism promotes happiness for everyone, corporatism, which is financed on debt and failure, is what exploits workers.

Both anarchisms want the same end, anarcho-communists just need to be persuade by the means to get there.

 

[[email protected]]

Yeah, but only because they don't know any better.

+1

 

[Anti Federalist]

Offspring would be a much better choice.

 

[mczerone]

All Paul supporters should go to the rage against the machine concert. It is the day after the rally. Many ratm fans are the antistate, anarchist type. These minds are very close to our beliefs. Therefore, waking up many of these people would be a piece of cake.

They are a lot more influenced by Allen Ginsburg than Karl Marx. So much so, in fact, that I'd say they lean more libertarian than socialist. They've performed pieces openly expressing their displeasure for the FBI, the CIA, and the DEA. Their songs are often about breaking away from the establishment, and individuality. How is that socialistic?

BTW: Not a Rage Against the Machine fan.

While the debate 'rages' on about whether RATM would be sympathetic to whatever cause, their audience is definitely saturated with people ready to pick up the ideas of Liberty - the CfL and Presidential campaign(s) should definitely by trying to impress the members of the audience, who have been thoroughly convinced that they are being lied to, and maybe collectivistic-cummunistic psuedo-anarchy isn't their solution.

 

[BarryDonegan]

Both anarchisms want the same end, anarcho-communists just need to be persuade by the means to get there.

if anarcho-communists were taught that liberty leads to prosperty through mom and pop shop competition, they wouldn't be anarcho communists anymore

haha.

 

[libertarian4321]

These guys aren't stupid. They are harvard graduates.

Need I remind you that George W. Bush is also a Harvard grad?

Harvard's reputation is forever tainted...