Rand surges to 4th in the latest national poll!

You're thinking about this in a tremendously selfish manner.

Cruz owes us absolutely nothing. He's doing what he feels is in the best interest for his family, his country, and himself. Expecting him to just fall in line with Rand, particularly when he's been outpolling and outraising Rand, is preposterous. On the flip side, if Rand starts polling two or three times what Cruz is, and money starts to flow to Rand, Cruz should drop. Until then, it would be just as fair for the Cruz supporters to call Rand out for not dropping.
You're missing something here: When Cruz jumped in Rand was polling way higher than him. That means either that Cruz jumped in because a) he cares more about his ego than the country, b) he want's to run against Rand based on the one major difference between them (Cruz's neocon FP), c) he want's to split the liberty/conservative vote, or d) he is secretly running to drop out and endorse Rand. Any of the first three things make me distrust Cruz. The last one seems really far fetched, but only time will tell.
 
Cruz is a great Senator. He's the closest their is to Rand in the Senate (apart from perhaps Mike Lee). He's been a consistent voice for liberty since his election and would be a great president.

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Cruz running and hurting Rand is no different than Rubio running and hurting Jeb. Obviously Cruz has some appeal with certain people and it's a bit presumptuous to assume all of his supporters would support Rand if Cruz wasn't in the race.
 
Cruz running and hurting Rand is no different than Rubio running and hurting Jeb. Obviously Cruz has some appeal with certain people and it's a bit presumptuous to assume all of his supporters would support Rand if Cruz wasn't in the race.

The argument that you are making is there is not a difference because Rubio and Bush and essentially they are running on the same neocon platform and would govern basically the same. The argument that Rand Paul has been making the entire time he has been running is that he is the only conservative running, the only non interventionist, and the only candidate that understands/fights for digital privacy.

Either Rand Paul is lying and Cruz is similar on these stances or Ted Cruz is completely fine pandering to anyone who might vote for him by taking whatever stance on the issue he thinks they want him to have. I have seen him do this with Trumps anti immigration/wall stances , I have also seen him do this on Mike Huckabees Kentucky/jail planned-parenthood-campaign and even the neocon foreign policy issues with John Mccain. I have seen him do this with Rand Paul's privacy and budget fights.
 
The argument that you are making is there is not a difference because Rubio and Bush and essentially they are running on the same neocon platform and would govern basically the same. The argument that Rand Paul has been making the entire time he has been running is that he is the only conservative running, the only non interventionist, and the only candidate that understands/fights for digital privacy.

Either Rand Paul is lying and Cruz is similar on these stances or Ted Cruz is completely fine pandering to anyone who might vote for him by taking whatever stance on the issue he thinks they want him to have. I have seen him do this with Trumps anti immigration/wall stances , I have also seen him do this on Mike Huckabees Kentucky/jail planned-parenthood-campaign and even the neocon foreign policy issues with John Mccain. I have seen him do this with Rand Paul's privacy and budget fights.

Not really what I meant. A lot of people are saying that Cruz owes the Pauls because they helped him, well the same can be said about Rubio with Jeb. A lot of the Jeb people were pissed that Rubio decided to run. So if it was some conspiracy to hold back Rand then is there one to hold back Jeb as well? Or are Cruz and Rubio simply just trying to take a shot at the presidency when they are likely at their peak in terms of popularity?

Ultimately Rand just needs to run a better campaign than Cruz and if we're being honest I don't think Cruz is the one holding Rand back. I mean just look at this forum there were a lot more Trump supporters than there ever were Cruz supporters.
 
Not really what I meant. A lot of people are saying that Cruz owes the Pauls because they helped him, well the same can be said about Rubio with Jeb. A lot of the Jeb people were pissed that Rubio decided to run. So if it was some conspiracy to hold back Rand then is there one to hold back Jeb as well? Or are Cruz and Rubio simply just trying to take a shot at the presidency when they are likely at their peak in terms of popularity?

Ultimately Rand just needs to run a better campaign than Cruz and if we're being honest I don't think Cruz is the one holding Rand back. I mean just look at this forum there were a lot more Trump supporters than there ever were Cruz supporters.

With Jeb and Rubio, the establishment is essentially throwing neocons at the walls to see what sticks - ya some Jeb people were upset, but ultimately the establishment doesn't care as long as they are both under their thumb. No conspiracy. A conspiracy seems more likely with Cruz running, since he follows the establishment on foreign policy and he has little chance of winning anything, the general in particular. Rand on the other hand is a threat to the establishment on all fronts and has the best shot in the general election.

There have been a lot of people here who had a penchant for Cruz, willing to overlook his foreign policy and wife's fed connections.. many have reconsidered especially after TPP.
 
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Either Rand Paul is lying and Cruz is similar on these stances or Ted Cruz is completely fine pandering to anyone who might vote for him by taking whatever stance on the issue he thinks they want him to have. I have seen him do this with Trumps anti immigration/wall stances , I have also seen him do this on Mike Huckabees Kentucky/jail planned-parenthood-campaign and even the neocon foreign policy issues with John Mccain. I have seen him do this with Rand Paul's privacy and budget fights.

In this respect Cruz reminds me of the Marvel supervillian the Absorbing Man, a guy who opportunistically takes on the properties of whatever substance he chooses to touch.
 
Cruz is a great Senator. He's the closest their is to Rand in the Senate (apart from perhaps Mike Lee). He's been a consistent voice for liberty since his election and would be a great president.

No. His position on endless wars invalidates anything he says about liberty.
 
Don't know how off topic this is, but did anyone see the Chris Matthews comments about how warmongering Hillary and several of the GOP candidates are (called Trump the American Putin, a bully). Then he started saying about if someone was still around in January, maybe we should vote for... (then the news switched to an AFN update). Did Chris W. just "sort of" endorse Rand? I'm trying not to believe this was intentional.
 
You're missing something here: When Cruz jumped in Rand was polling way higher than him. That means either that Cruz jumped in because a) he cares more about his ego than the country, b) he want's to run against Rand based on the one major difference between them (Cruz's neocon FP), c) he want's to split the liberty/conservative vote, or d) he is secretly running to drop out and endorse Rand. Any of the first three things make me distrust Cruz. The last one seems really far fetched, but only time will tell.

I have an even crazier and more far-fetched idea: he wants to be President, and he thinks he'll make a good one.
 
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For those of you that think he owes the Pauls nothing that's my disagreement. The Pauls were instrumental in both getting this guy elected and putting him on the national scene in 2012. Cruz is an ass hole for not sitting this one out from the beginning because he did owe the Pauls for that. Instead of fracturing what's already a minority within the GOP he should have tried to encouraged unity by backing Paul from the start with the idea being Paul would do the same next election cycle when it was Cruz's turn. Cruz running made absolutely no sense unless Cruz's entire goal was sabotage - he knew Rand was running so he knew that his support would be split as well yet he still went ahead and did it. The second Cruz announced he was running Rand's support was split and his momentum stalled and I do not believe he ever really recovered from it. Between his talking over Rand at the debates and stealing his talking points (not to mention his laughable bail out explanation last debate that proved to me he has no idea what he's talking about) I think it's safe to say there's good reason not to trust this guy.

My point is just about loyalty... it doesn't even get into the laundry list of bullshit surrounding Cruz like his CFR membership or his Ex-Goldman Sachs Wife which I don't even care about in comparison to what I perceive to be as an incredibly dickish move by running in the first place - which has then made worse by his constant interrupting of Rand and theft of his talking points (without really understanding what the hell is going on - I'd love to hear him explain how bailouts work again or how he plans to actually get gold back into the monetary system - bottom line is the guy can't because he has no real intention of doing any of that and he's just saying what the libertarian wing wants to hear and everyone financing the guy knows it and they're fucking laughing at you guys for falling for it.)

And before someone accuses me of being a Rand homer go back and look at my posts over the last 4 months. I've been about as hard on Rand as i'm being on Cruz right now.

This entire post is one giant argument in favor political corruption and "playing politics." I didn't expect to see stuff like this on RPF, but I guess there's no avoiding it...
 
With Jeb and Rubio, the establishment is essentially throwing neocons at the walls to see what sticks - ya some Jeb people were upset, but ultimately the establishment doesn't care as long as they are both under their thumb. No conspiracy. A conspiracy seems more likely with Cruz running, since he follows the establishment on foreign policy and he has little chance of winning anything, the general in particular. Rand on the other hand is a threat to the establishment on all fronts and has the best shot in the general election.

There have been a lot of people here who had a penchant for Cruz, willing to overlook his foreign policy and wife's fed connections.. many have reconsidered especially after TPP.

More may want to reconsider their support of Cruz, now that he's taking jabs at Rand.
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Ted Cruz – who voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act – jabs Rand Paul over the NSA

While speaking in Iowa in an attempt to appeal to conservative Republicans in the caucus state, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) slid a light jab in the direction of Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) over the NSA’s controversial metadata collection program.

The New York Times reports that although Cruz has announced previously that he would not engage in mudslinging and personal attacks on fellow candidates, he proceeded to make clear his disappointment in Paul’s vote against the USA Freedom Act.

“At first, he stated that “Rand Paul is a good friend of mine, he and I have fought side by side many times,” but then Mr. Cruz recalled an attempt in the Senate to overhaul the once-secret National Security Agency program that collects records of Americans’ phone calls in bulk. When the vote came up in November, he said, “Unfortunately Rand voted no.”

At the time, Mr. Paul said the bill did not go far enough in curbing the N.S.A., while Mr. Cruz said it was imperative to protect the Bill of Rights.”

Sen. Paul has made clear of his reasons for voting against the USA Freedom Act, which pertained to a provision, which would have reauthorized the Patriot Act through 2017, which Sen. Ted Cruz voted for.

“I’m against that,” Paul says. “There is a right to privacy and the government needs to stay out. If they want to look at your information, if they want to collect any of your data, they should do it with a judge’s warrant with probable cause if they think you have committed a crime.”

“I will vote for the Freedom Act as long as it doesn’t include reauthorization of the Patriot Act,” he says.

However, Ted Cruz’s comments have not gone unnoticed by those who know better regarding Sen. Paul’s stance on the NSA and metadata collection.

@JoshuaNehmeh He voted against it b/c it renewed parts of the Patriot Act; Most of this stuff sunsets in June; Cruz being little deceptive

— Scott (@SPJames323) April 2, 2015


Senator Paul has not been the only civil libertarian in Congress who has spoken out and acted against the USA Freedom Act. In fact, Justin Amash, one of the original co-sponsors of the bill ended up voting against it because of how watered down it had become by the time it had reached the House floor for a vote.

Amash explained his vote, as usual, on his Facebook page:

“I was and am proud of the work our group, led by Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, did to promote this legislation, as originally drafted.

However, the revised bill that makes its way to the House floor this morning doesn’t look much like the Freedom Act.

This morning’s bill maintains and codifies a large-scale, unconstitutional domestic spying program. It claims to end “bulk collection” of Americans’ data only in a very technical sense: The bill prohibits the government from, for example, ordering a telephone company to turn over all its call records every day.

But the bill was so weakened in behind-the-scenes negotiations over the last week that the government still can order—without probable cause—a telephone company to turn over all call records for “area code 616” or for “phone calls made east of the Mississippi.” The bill green-lights the government’s massive data collection activities that sweep up Americans’ records in violation of the Fourth Amendment.”

Ted Cruz may feel as though he did his duty to attempt reign in the NSA’s metadata program, but in the long run, the bill that was voted for by the senator from Texas would have done very little to change the status quo of the American surveillance state.

His criticism of Rand Paul, if not intentionally deceitful, showed at least a surprising ignorance over Paul’s true objection to the USA Freedom Act.

UPDATE: Senior Paul adviser Doug Stafford said in a statement to Rare:

“Senator Paul has been the leading fighter to end NSA abuses. He voted NO on the bill mentioned here because it did not actually fix the problem, and also because it included reauthorization of expiring parts of the Patriot Act, something for which Senator Paul simply could not cast his vote. Others are welcome to their decision to compromise on American’s 4th Amendment rights, but not welcome to cast it misleadingly as a vote for liberty.” http://rare.us/story/ted-cruz-who-voted-to-reauthorize-the-patriot-act-jabs-rand-paul-over-the-nsa/
 
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