Rand Paul Responds to Ron: 'Chris Kyle Was a Hero'

[fisharmor]

bash Rand over any trivial thing

I've lost track of all the "trivial things" at this point.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not contradicting at all. If Americans go to war, I would much prefer that they not die. Chris Kyle was there. His job was to save American lives. He did a great job.

A better question to ask, what were the Iraqis fighting for? I agree that we had absolutely no business meddling in another country. That said, Iraqi soldiers had much less business fighting to keep the rest of the country oppressed under a dictatorship. There is absolutely no moral justification for being an Iraqi soldier. American soldiers on the other hand were freeing a people. So yes I do value and American soldiers infinitely more in this situation than Iraqi soldier.

Iraqis clearly preferred not to have millions of innocent civilians slayed in the process of being "freed". The American soldiers were not freeing anyone. They were toppling Saddam's regime only to put the US regime in its place and act as its enforcers. Do you really think this was all done in the name of "Democracy"? It's not just Iraqi soldiers either. It's mothers with grenades trying to defend their homeland from invasion by American forces. The civilian "insurgents" weren't fighting to keep Saddam in power. They were fighting to stop an invasion of their homeland.

Don't forget that this happened in the streets of Baghdad, not just in some far-off battlefield where only the people who willingly participated got killed.

 

[Danan]

I'm not contradicting at all. If Americans go to war, I would much prefer that they not die. Chris Kyle was there. His job was to save American lives. He did a great job.

A better question to ask, what were the Iraqis fighting for? I agree that we had absolutely no business meddling in another country. That said, Iraqi soldiers had much less business fighting to keep the rest of the country oppressed under a dictatorship. There is absolutely no moral justification for being an Iraqi soldier. American soldiers on the other hand were freeing a people. So yes I do value and American soldiers infinitely more in this situation than Iraqi soldier.

Why is it a good thing to kill people who only have to engage in violence as a response to an unlegitimate war against them, in order to save the lifes of people executing this unjustified war? Only because the latter group happens to have a different citizenship?

I do not know why every single victim of Kyle was fighting, if they were good and moral people and if they only fighted to defend their own property. I seriously doubt that I would consider most of them being "good" people. But it seems to me that it's pretty likely that they had a better reason to engage in violence than those US soldiers whose lifes Kyle's murders supposedly saved.

 

[TheGrinch]

I've lost track of all the "trivial things" at this point.

Not all are trivial, some have been concerning, but things like this and a token endorsement he later went back on to criticize Romney, yes, I think they qualify as trivial and not looking at the big picture.

Even if you're right and Rand only brings a watered-down version of libertarianism, well still two BIG plusses:

1) Any gains for liberty sure beat the current government, and it's undeniable he's worknig on many great things on the domestic front. The financial argument should be sufficient for the FP front for the time-being if they can't swallow the "10% I disagree with Ron Paul about".

2) If you want any chance for the more extreme positions to make it into the mainstream, they have to be spoon-fed the easier to swallow parts, or it will never happen. Trust me from a lot of experience converting people to Ron Paul. Once they wake up a little, most end up finding the truth on their own.

Sorry to say, but maybe even Ron realizes that the world is not ready for the pure message, so if we want to actually enact any change and/or be in a position of influence when it all comes crashing down...

 

[cajuncocoa]

Seriously, you're going to play the sock-puppet card, after you've posted thousands of posts in recent months, 99.9 of them to bash Rand over any trivial thing (which yes is this is an incredibly trivial thing to hyperbolize the way you did, when he did nothing but pay honor to a fallen soldier, something Ron has done countless times before now being in a position of retirement where he can be more blunt about the war machine. He never used to go politicizing a soldier's death, which frankly makes me doubt he wrote the initial post, but more likely wrote the REP quote you posted)... But back to the point, you really think that LE is the only one who's way past tired of you jumping on and incesently posting about any little thing with him?

I criticized Rand's statement about Israel, and said that it, along with other things, gives me some concern to watch his votes and rhetoric more closely, but you're simply not even willing to give him a chance (which is fine BTW, but the way you won't let anyone else even continue to form an opinion about him, and just have to demonize what is debateable and unknown, i.e., his intentions, is extremely off-putting. It's far more extreme than just difference in strategy, where you may more likely be right if he goes too far off-path, but we cannot possibly know if he's a trojan-horse in the republican civil-war or sellout at this point. Time will tell).

So maybe keep an open-mind before you jsut jump to the conclusion that because he's respectful of the dead, that it's just another reason that he's a lackey for the war-mongers. There is more evidence to the contrary of that assessment than supports it, no matter how hard you may try to believe there is.

I'm going to keep it really simple for you: by unconditionally calling Chris Kyle a hero, Rand is giving credence and comfort to those who worship psychopaths like Kyle who kill for the thrill of it.

another question people ask a lot: Did it bother you killing so many people in Iraq? I tell them, “No.” And I mean it. The first time you shoot someone, you get a little nervous. You think, can I really shoot this guy? Is it really okay? But after you kill your enemy, you see it’s okay. You say, Great. You do it again. And again. You do it so the enemy won’t kill you or your countrymen. You do it until there’s no one left for you to kill. That’s what war is. #
in American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History

 

[PaulConventionWV]

KOREA?????????? We conquered Korea> South Korea was a third world country and now it is one of the richest countries on the planet. What do you mean occupy their land? They have North Korea just to the North. We are there military, unfortunately. North Korea is one of the poorest most oppressed countries on the planet.

In what way has South Korea been worse off for having the United States involved?

That's not the point. The point is that the US has effectively "conquered entire continents" (or close to it) as you said. Maybe South Korea is better off now than they were, but Iraq certainly isn't. Maybe in 100 years we'll still be there and we'll all look back and say "Gee, I'm glad we did that. Look how well off they are." However, the millions of Iraqis who lost a family member in that invasion will disagree with you. If you think the fact that they may LOOK better off in a decade or two justifies murdering innocent civilians to achieve the US government's evil agenda, then be mu guest.

 

[jj-]

Kyle is an example of a truly brainwashed person.

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

"Chris Kyle was a hero like all Americans who don the uniform to defend our country."

Chris Kyle did not defend America, and neither did anyone else who invaded Iraq. Nor is it heroic to participate in an act of aggression against a badly-outgunned opponent.

 

[TheGrinch]

I'm going to keep it really simple for you: by unconditionally calling Chris Kyle a hero, Rand is giving credence and comfort to those who worship psychopaths like Kyle who kill for the thrill of it.

You don't have to worship war for people to view people who get messed up "defending" the county in their minds, as misguided as that may be to us, as a hero. Yes it has become an overused cliche, but that's because IN GENERAL (not in the current environment) there is honor in putting one's life on the line for their country, so blame those who manipulate to take us to wars for the worng reasons, not those who likely were manipulated into a messed up life.

I would really hope that you don't think any less of me because I almost enlisted when I was 19 when 9/11 happened, because much like most I was manipulated into thinking I would be defending this country.

 

[Original_Intent]

For all we know, Ron's statement may have been a pre-planned setup for Rand to prove to the establishment that he is not "the old man".

I realize that may be a reach, politics is often a deeper game than I think even us "awake" people realize. I certainly feel that Ron would gladly make a provocative and somewhat tactless statement to give Rand such an opportunity.

 

[green73]

Rand Paul: Every Government Worker in Uniform is a Hero
Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on February 4, 2013 10:04 PM

Following Ron Paul's truth-telling about the tragic outcomes that are sure to come from time spent in a military where rape, suicide, domestic abuse and general killing are widespread, Sen. Rand Paul immediately took the easy way out and declared that “Chris Kyle was a hero like all Americans who don the uniform to defend our country," [Emphasis mine.]

Yes, every American soldier is a hero, just like the Bronze-Star-winning Timothy McVeigh and the Marine Lee Harvey Oswald. And don't forget all the heroes at Mai Lai.

"The Army," McVeigh said "taught him how to switch off his emotions."

Now, I'm not claiming that all or even most soldiers are like Timothy McVeigh, but to claim, as Rand Paul has done, that every soldier is a hero, is contemptible and shows a probably-invincible ignorance of history. Rand Paul, however, whose full time job now seems to be pandering to neocons shouldn't fear that his words will be examined for every possible meaning. No, as long as one errs on the side of sycophantic praise of the government in the form of its armed agents, then all is fine.

..

 

[PaulConventionWV]

..

Some people here do defend Timothy McVeigh. Also, Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill Kennedy. The examples he gives aren't very good.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Now, THAT sounds more like Ron.

 

[The Gold Standard]

Hey, RPF, I'm confused on this point.
This sniper has only 10 confirmed kills. Is he a hero, or not a hero?

That all depends. How dark were the people he sniped? Were they wearing towels on their heads?

 

[mport1]

I've lost track of all the "trivial things" at this point.

Calling this murderous psychopath a hero is hardly trivial. Any respect I had for Rand is quickly vanishing...

 

[The Gold Standard]

American soldiers on the other hand were freeing a people.

By replacing Saddam with a tyrannical democracy like ours, we did the Iraqi people no favors. And they know that.

 

[mport1]

Hey, RPF, I'm confused on this point.
This sniper has only 10 confirmed kills. Is he a hero, or not a hero?

Was he playing dress up by wearing a silly costume while doing so?

If so, I guess by most people's standards he is. However, he'd have to up his murder count to compete with Chris' level of heroics.

 

[Danke]

 

[jj-]

American soldiers on the other hand were freeing a people.

Your name shouldn't be "misean". Maybe Irving Kristol. You're a neocon, or more likely, a troll.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You don't have to worship war for people to view people who get messed up "defending" the county in their minds, as misguided as that may be to us, as a hero. Yes it has become an overused cliche, but that's because IN GENERAL (not in the current environment) there is honor in putting one's life on the line for their country, so blame those who manipulate to take us to wars for the worng reasons, not those who likely were manipulated into a messed up life.

I would really hope that you don't think any less of me because I almost enlisted when I was 19 when 9/11 happened, because much like most I was manipulated into thinking I would be defending this country.

Of course I don't think less of you for that. Many of us (myself included for awhile) were manipulated into thinking that way. Believe me I HAVE, AND I STILL DO, blame those who manipulated, engaged in fear tactics, took us to war for wrong reasons!

I hope you would see the difference between someone, like yourself perhaps, who enlists to defend his country, and another who wants to kill (over and over again) for the thrill of killing, and then writes a book to brag about it.