Rand Paul Responds to Ron: 'Chris Kyle Was a Hero'

[A Son of Liberty]

True. But it's a theory I've had since 2010. And little by little evidence is coming forward to confirm it. At some point when events continue to confirm a theory it becomes more probable than not.

Or you interpret events to fit your theory.

I'm not opposed to it, and if it's true I guess that's great, but it's nothing that I personally can hang my hat on.

 

[jmdrake]

That assumes : 1) rand can win more republicans than neocons 2) rand doesn't lose ron's people even when ron tells them to support him.

Very risky, probably easier to just tell all non-Obama supporters to united against Democrats

Yes it's risky. I said that 3 years ago. But the "tell all non-Obama supporters to unite against the Democrats" was tried. It didn't work. The "anti Democrat" vote will be split 6 ways to Sunday.

Anyway, Rand has already lost some of Ron's supporters and there are some that he won't lose no matter what he says as long as he keeps at least a halfway decent voting record. If Ran can be in striking distance of first place and if he retains even half of Ron's support he has a good shot. And based on what I've seen around here he'll maintain at least half.

 

[jmdrake]

Or you interpret events to fit your theory.

I'm not opposed to it, and if it's true I guess that's great, but it's nothing that I personally can hang my hat on.

Put it this way. I was not at all surprised by Rand's endorsement of Mitt Romney. And I correctly read the signals coming from the Ron Paul 2012 campaign that it was winding down when others were in denial and thought there really was a plan to pursue a convention floor fight. And this latest move by both Ron and Rand doesn't surprise me as well. I'm not tied up in knots over it like some people are. If you call that "interpreting events to fit my theory" fine. I call it just being right.

 

[sailingaway]

Put it this way. I was not at all surprised by Rand's endorsement of Mitt Romney. And I correctly read the signals coming from the Ron Paul 2012 campaign that it was winding down when others were in denial and thought there really was a plan to pursue a convention floor fight. And this latest move by both Ron and Rand doesn't surprise me as well. I'm not tied up in knots over it like some people are. If you call that "interpreting events to fit my theory" fine. I call it just being right.

From the speech Ron gave at Texas GOP hours earlier that day RON was surprised WHEN Rand endorsed Romney.

I can believe Rand might unilaterally be trying the pitch you are saying, and he may have told his Dad he is trying to trim his sails or whatever, but I don't see any evidence Ron is part of it and would be upset if he were for the same reason I don't like Rand's direction. I don't think running for office pretending to be someone else is the right thing to do, and don't know who he is pretending to if that is what he is doing. I want our candidates to trumpet the message, which is easier now that Ron has already blazed a path imho. The difference is I don't expect anything from Rand at this point, I'm just waiting to see what happens. Ron has built expectations.

 

[LibertyEagle]

We sure seem to be putting all our eggs in one basket and to me, that is concerning. What happened to reclaiming our government from the bottom on up? Everyone knows that is the only real chance we have of making real changes. Yet, we seem to be back to focusing on federal candidates and the presidency.

The reality is, that there is slim to no chance that one of our guys is going to win the presidency. The bad guys aren't going to let that happen, come hell or high water. Come on, you know that. We have a lot of chances at the local and state level. If we don't take those back where we live, how on earth do you think nullification is ever going to have a chance. It won't. Yet, here we are still talking about Rand endorsing Romney and whether Ron knew about it. Sheesh.

 

[brandon]

Pretty sick world we live in where our leaders tell us someone responsible for killing at least 160 other fellow humans is a hero.

Ron Paul is a hero.

I'm positive Chris Kyle is burning in hell, if there is a hell.

 

[jmdrake]

From the speech Ron gave at Texas GOP hours earlier that day RON was surprised WHEN Rand endorsed Romney.

I can believe Rand might unilaterally be trying the pitch you are saying, and he may have told his Dad he is trying to trim his sails or whatever, but I don't see any evidence Ron is part of it and would be upset if he were for the same reason I don't like Rand's direction. I don't think running for office pretending to be someone else is the right thing to do, and don't know who he is pretending to if that is what he is doing. I want our candidates to trumpet the message, which is easier now that Ron has already blazed a path imho. The difference is I don't expect anything from Rand at this point, I'm just waiting to see what happens. Ron has built expectations.

Have you ever watched the Lord of the Rings? Remember the ending? Frodo and Sam dressed up as orcs to sneak around behind the enemy and destroy the ring of power? Gandalf and the rest of the fellowship of the ring boldly charged the gates of Mordor as a distraction to give Frodo time?

People often picture Ron as Gandalf. +rep to whoever has the photoshop skills to turn this into Rand.

Here's a question. If I'm right, and if this strategy actually works, and if the federal reserve is audited and shut down, and the pre-emptive wars cease, and the security state is demolished and the welfare state is unravelled ect, and when it's all said and done Rand Paul writes a book that says "Yeah. This is how we did it." will you be upset then? Because I won't.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Why does RP have 2 verified twitter accounts - @RepRonPaul and @RonPaul? Which one does he supposedly run according to Megan Stiles?

If you look on the first one, Ron posted that it was shutting down with him leaving office. The latter is the one that Stiles was talking about and it is also the one from which the tweet was sent.

 

[sailingaway]

Have you ever watched the Lord of the Rings? Remember the ending? Frodo and Sam dressed up as orcs to sneak around behind the enemy and destroy the ring of power? Gandalf and the rest of the fellowship of the ring boldly charged the gates of Mordor as a distraction to give Frodo time?

People often picture Ron as Gandalf. +rep to whoever has the photoshop skills to turn this into Rand.

Here's a question. If I'm right, and if this strategy actually works, and if the federal reserve is audited and shut down, and the pre-emptive wars cease, and the security state is demolished and the welfare state is unravelled ect, and when it's all said and done Rand Paul writes a book that says "Yeah. This is how we did it." will you be upset then? Because I won't.

Yes.

Not at the result, but at the dishonesty.

I do think the means to an end matters. But I also think if you aren't selling liberty all the way to the white house, you will have no support to 'impose it' when you get there, so that outcome is unlikely.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

The overflowing hate for Kyle is mind-boggling. I personally don't think he is a national hero, largely because of a flawed mission objective, but he was often assigned to provide support for vulnerable units in action. And he was incredibly proficient at his job, in fact too good. Yet we have people equating him with Hitler. The same Hitler who was arbitrarily killling people outside a combat zone.

Good to see someone has a sense of perspective. Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that shit just goes right out the window.

 

[UWDude]

Nobody said it was a tragedy when Juba was killled.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Good to see someone has a sense of perspective. Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that shit just goes right out the window.

True. Many people have lost their morals in that hell hole. I'm sure a few have lost all respect for life, have seen their friends blown up, or sniped, and really can't live with themselves anymore. Then you have a few sociopaths who actually enjoy it. They don't mind watching peoples' heads being evaporated or limbs being ripped off. They don't mind shooting anyone who tries to respond, because of course, they are savages, and it was either them or him. They don't mind shooting anyone on the street as was the orders from the higher ups. Hell, they only wish they could have killed more. Where's your perspective on this? Might I speculate for a moment that maybe the PTSD soldier who shot and killed him was one of the people I was referring to first. Perhaps he had heard Chris Kyle speak about wishing he could have killed more. Perhaps Chris Kyle was speaking about one of his escapades and the man got tired of listening. You don't know, and I don't know. But the more I think about it the more that scenario makes the most sense. Why a man with 160 bodies who openly brags about them, and says he wished he could have killed more, would take PTSD soldiers to the range, many of whom undoubtedly regret their actions and are virtually dead to violence, is beyond me. I very much can see Chris Kyle speaking about shooting someone's arm off and the shooting the subsequent responders when this man had enough of it. Where's your perspective on that?

 

[JK/SEA]

It's stupid to criticize somebody when they die.

in ALL cases?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Totally agree. I'm extremely anti-war and the guy used poor judgement taking someone with mental issues to a shooting range. But he absolutely nothing wrong in war and I'm thankful for people like Chris Kyle.

I'm with you. Iraq was a catastrophic foreign policy disaster; only Vietnam tops it really. It was terrible strategic policy. I think we all get that here. When it comes to military men like Kyle I look upon them as instruments of war. They aren't the suits in Washington initiating and directing policy. Aren't we always telling progressives that inanimate tools like guns don't kill people, but rather people kill people. Well the military is an instrument in this regard, when its misused I don't find fault with grunts on the ground like Kyle. He was placed in a bad situation, and carried out his duty. Being in a bad situation kind of goes with the job description and we need military men that are willing to put everything on the line when it truly does matter.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Really people here defend McVeigh? I find that hard to believe, but if so so what? There are people here that believe reptilians from another dimension are taking over. But in the final analysis, are McVeigh and Oswald heroes? They did don the uniform.

I'm just saying he kind of dulled his point by using those examples. It seems to me like he was trying to point out some "bad people" who were marines when there is no real consensus that they actually were bad people.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Regardless of all this fuss, and regardless of what Rand says... I don't think he ACTUALLY believes that EVERYONE who dons the uniform is a real hero. I simply can't fathom that he would actually mean that when he said it. It's clear to me that he said it for a reason other than actually to say what he believes because there's no way in hell he thinks every single soldier is a hero simply by virtue of being a soldier.

Sadly, however, some people do believe that. Americans are stoopid.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

DING DING DING!

You just nailed it. It all makes sense now. Ron's been posting to his Facebook account, hence the bizarre poorly worded post on January 30 where it was clearly him trying to say something but not coming off well, versus the tweets which are definitely different in style and substance.

REP... his initials. Ronald Earnest Paul.

That makes freakin sense.

Bravo. You deserve a cookie.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

True. Many people have lost their morals in that hell hole. I'm sure a few have lost all respect for life, have seen their friends blown up, or sniped, and really can't live with themselves anymore. Then you have a few sociopaths who actually enjoy it. They don't mind watching peoples' heads being evaporated or limbs being ripped off. They don't mind shooting anyone who tries to respond, because of course, they are savages, and it was either them or him. They don't mind shooting anyone on the street as was the orders from the higher ups. Hell, they only wish they could have killed more. Where's your perspective on this? Might I speculate for a moment that maybe the PTSD soldier who shot and killed him was one of the people I was referring to first. Perhaps he had heard Chris Kyle speak about wishing he could have killed more. Perhaps Chris Kyle was speaking about one of his escapades and the man got tired of listening. You don't know, and I don't know. But the more I think about it the more that scenario makes the most sense. Why a man with 160 bodies who openly brags about them, and says he wished he could have killed more, would take PTSD soldiers to the range, many of whom undoubtedly regret their actions and are virtually dead to violence, is beyond me. I very much can see Chris Kyle speaking about shooting someone's arm off and the shooting the subsequent responders when this man had enough of it. Where's your perspective on that?

I'm not going to comment about the details of the murder because there's way too much speculation going on. Many vets are avid sportsman so I don't find it all that odd they would take up hunting or shooting as a hobby. Many fighter pilots joined motorcycle clubs after previous wars because they enjoyed the freedom the bike offered, the exhilaration of driving fast, and because they missed the bond they developed with their aircraft. Riding motorcycles offered some semblance of that. We know less about the human mind than we know about the oceans under Saturn's moon Titan.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Iraq was no "mistake" or blunder, or anything of the sort. It was a very intentional, strategic maneuver.

 

[sailingaway]

No it doesn't prove your point. Ron didn't "tell us" until he was specifically asked. He's not above playing some of his cards close to the vest.



Edit: And you're doing what you accused me of doing earlier which is ignoring to twisting facts because the conclusion is too painful for you. If Ron was always as straightforward as you'd like he would have said when he made the endorsement "And I'm only doing this because I have to in order to keep my chairmanship." Instead he waited until there was no longer any risk and until he was specifically asked by a supporter. If he comes out later and says "Yeah, I knew Rand was pretending to go along with the neocons and I decided to go full bore on the educational campaign and we both realized that this dual strategy would help further the cause by simultaneously building up Rand's credibility when he had to distance himself from me and building up the overall movement as I taught people about liberty" will you go "Great! Glad it worked!" or will you go "But...but...but....I feel so betrayed?" Speaking for myself, if the strategy actually works I have no problem with it.

No, I just disagree with you and would think less of Ron if what you said were true, it wouldn't make the other branch of action ok for me. You are ok with both so to you the leap isn't a big deal, but it would be for me.

And Ron telling us when asked is the point. We've all been asking, haven't we?

I just think Ron is responsible for his own actions, including this tweet if he wrote it, and Rand is responsible for his own actions. You are trying to get Ron responsible for Rand's actions and I just see no evidence for that, and NOT being ok with that, I am not going to make that leap.

We may just have to agree to disagree, since I see this as a leap of faith situation.