Rand Paul: I'm Not a libertarian...

[Christian Liberty]

I'm not sure why it would matter. I almost agree with Ron on everything but I wouldn't call myself a libertarian. I even voted for GJ and there's a lot that I don't agree with him on (a lot more than Rand).

I really don't care what Ron, Rand or anyone else wants to label themselves as (or if they simply refuse to label themselves). What really matters to me is what they do. I mean how many phonies have called themselves libertarians? Does it really matter to you that they label themselves as a libertarian?

Since you don't call yourself a libertarian and therefore never have to deal with these stereotypes I can understand that you would feel differently about it. I just wish that Rand supporters could see this from the libertarians' point of view. Since most of you either can't or won't, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and live with whatever consequences there may be as a result of these remarks.

Personally I prefer not to label myself because I understand there are negative stereotypes that I don't want to be associated with and would much rather be judged on my own views and not by the views of others.

IMO when you choose to label yourself then you're sort of forced to defend your label, and that results in attacking those who you don't think represents your label appropriately (Glenn Beck, Koch brothers, Libertarian Party etc.).

There's truth to that. Sometimes I prefer the constitution party over the LP anyway depending on the candidates. Glenn Beck is a joke along with anyone else who had a problem with Ron Paul's heroic "Live By The Sword, Die By The Sword" tweet.

But yeah, I get your point. Its still annoying that there's a stereotype though. I do call myself a libertarian though. I can't think of another term that really works. "Constitutionalist" is not a complete description for me, even though I do argue based on the Constitution a lot of the time, I'd much rather scrap it for the Articles or something else that makes govt even smaller.

 

[erowe1]

I'd be shocked that Ron Paul said he wasn't a libertarian. "Libertarian" wasn't really a term he used, at least not particularly often, but he was clearly advocating libertarian political views. Granted, not absolute 100% pure libertarianism (See his comment about defaming people during the SC "Legalize heroin speech"), and definitely coming from a constitutional state's rights perspective, but he clearly was a libertarian, or at least predominately so.

I don't think Ron Paul advocates everyone running around naked smoking pot.

 

[Christian Liberty]

He doesn't. But he never would have made a comment implying that libertarians advocate that.

If Rand really said this exactly the way the article and your sig suggests, that was the implication. I know Rand doesn't really believe that, but that was the implication. Its like Cajuncocoa's sarcastic sig... "I'm not a Republican, I don't advocate putting Israel first and going to war everywhere." No, it doesn't outright state that all Republicans support that, but the implication is there. The same is true for Rand's statement.

That doesn't necessarily mean that its wrong to do... if the stereotype is accurate. If you said "I'm not a Neo-Nazi, I don't hate Jewish people" there would be nothing wrong with that at all, since that "Stereotype" about Neo-Nazis is generally correct. Or, "I'm not a libertarian, I don't think it should be legal to shoot heroin." Well, if you don't support legalizing heroin, you're a nutcase along with 90% of the population, but the "Stereotype" that libertarians support legalizing heroin would be correct, so there's nothing wrong with the statement.
(@Cajuncocoa- I am well aware that you only have that sig to make a point that what Rand said wasn't acceptable.)

 

[Peace Piper]

Turns out Rand dances after all...

Rand Paul Embraces Israel

Rand Paul is describing an episode from his trip to Israel in January: “I went to a Shabbat,” he tells me, “it was the first time I’ve ever done that, and I had a wonderful time. I went to the yeshiva, and all the young men were singing and dancing, they had me dancing around the table. I hope I was singing something that was fine — it was all in Hebrew, so I had no idea what I was singing.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/347151/rand-paul-and-israel​

Rand Paul: Proof the apple sometimes falls far away
Here's a message for those that expect all Ron supporters to just Roll Over

 

[cajuncocoa]

but do you have the full continuous quote to be able to determine that? Rand was quoted with two sets of quotation marks, so the sentences he spoke could have been minutes apart.

I contacted his office via email to ask this question. Will post it here if I get a response. I really hope you're right, jct74.

I promised to post the response I received from Rand's office....but I have to say that this falls into the category of "when is a response not really a response".

I specifically asked about the two quoted sentences that are the topic of this thread: “I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot,” and “I’m not a libertarian. I’m a libertarian Republican. I’m a constitutional conservative.”

I specifically asked for clarification as to whether he was suggesting this is stereotypical of libertarians as it implies; I asked if the two quotes came back-to-back and if there is any chance the quotes are taken out of context.

This is what Rand's office sent in reply:

Dear ----------,

Thank you for contacting me regarding the legalization of marijuana. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this issue.

The Ending Federal Prohibition on Marijuana Act of 2013 (H.R. 499) would amend the Controlled Substances Act to remove marijuana from the list of substances illegal under the act, except that it would remain illegal to ship or transport marijuana to states or localities where it remains illegal. It would also require the establishment a licensing process to create permits for the manufacture, import and sale of marijuana. Finally, H.R. 499 would establish a regulatory process for marijuana similar to that of alcohol, transferring responsibility for enforcement of marijuana-related laws from the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which the legislation would rename as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Marijuana, Firearms and Explosives.

H.R. 499 was introduced on Feb. 5, 2013, and referred to several House committees with jurisdiction over the production and sale of marijuana, including the House Committees on the Judiciary, Energy and Commerce, Ways and Means, Natural Resources, and Agriculture. It currently awaits further consideration. Please be assured I will keep your thoughts in mind should this or similar legislation come before me in the Senate for debate or vote.

Once more, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of assistance in the future. I look forward to hearing from you again.


Sincerely,

Rand Paul, MD
United States Senator

 

[Warlord]

Why does he need to clarify anything ?

He does not advocate what he says and neither do I and i'm a libertarian and have been since aged 19.

He's also a KY senator so unless a constituent you shouldn't really expect anything.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Why does he need to clarify anything ?

He does not advocate what he says and neither do I and i'm a libertarian and have been since aged 19.

He's also a KY senator so unless a constituent you shouldn't really expect anything.

He's also a presidential candidate (why else would he have been in Iowa?)

 

[HigherVision]

Because he stereotyped me as a nudist pothead. I am a Libertarian, and I have never used nor advocated the use of marijuana, nor have I ever gone out in public naked, or advocated that anyone else do so, yet He dismissed me in a public setting as advocating nudity and marijuana use, as if my financial and activist support of his campaign is useless.

But he felt he had to in order to win over the right wing fascists, which will be necessary if he wants to win the presidency. See I used to get all pissed off at stuff like this too, but when you realize that the average person is your political enemy and that you basically have to trick them in order to win, it gets easier to not be offended. There's no utopian 'awakening' coming any time soon that anarcho-libertarians like to talk about. "Just educate people about liberty and how harmful the state is and they'll all become libertarians/anarchists like us!" Unfortunately that's not likely to happen. Sheeple gonna sheeple whether we like it or not so you have to beat them at their own game. We're smarter than them anyway.

 

[phill4paul]

Why does he need to clarify anything ?

He does not advocate what he says and neither do I and i'm a libertarian and have been since aged 19.

He's also a KY senator so unless a constituent you shouldn't really expect anything.

So nobody from out of state should bother to comment on KY hemp legislature? Nobody out of state should fund his senatorial seat? Last I heard he is a 2016 aspirationista.
What he says and how he says it matters. If his goal is to progress from KY senate.

 

[talkingpointes]

But he felt he had to in order to win over the right wing fascists, which will be necessary if he wants to win the presidency. See I used to get all pissed off at stuff like this too, but when you realize that the average person is your political enemy and that you basically have to trick them in order to win, it gets easier to not be offended. There's no utopian 'awakening' coming any time soon that anarcho-libertarians like to talk about. "Just educate people about liberty and how harmful the state is and they'll all become libertarians/anarchists like us!" Unfortunately that's not likely to happen. Sheeple gonna sheeple whether we like it or not so you have to beat them at their own game. We're smarter than them anyway.

In other words you feel superior to your enemies who are really just challenging ideologies. How are you winning over someone with something that they will never think about or internalize, so you misrepresent yourself? Certainly that sounds good on paper, but the strategy relies on the premise that person never waking up to situation a. (the world/politics) b. (you).

You woke up for some reason and were not born this way in those regards, what makes you so different then everyone else?

 

[HigherVision]

In other words you feel superior to your enemies who are really just challenging ideologies. How are you winning over someone with something that they will never think about or internalize, so you misrepresent yourself? Certainly that sounds good on paper, but the strategy relies on the premise that person never waking up to situation a. (the world/politics) b. (you).

You woke up for some reason and were not born this way in those regards, what makes you so different then everyone else?

I feel superior to people who want to use force against other people, yeah. Same way I feel superior to murderers and rapists, albeit to a lesser extent. If they do ever wake up and become full libertarians, all the better. I just don't see it happening. As to why I don't know.

 

[FrankRep]

I feel superior to people who want to use force against other people, yeah. Same way I feel superior to murderers and rapists, albeit to a lesser extent. If they do ever wake up and become full libertarians, all the better. I just don't see it happening. As to why I don't know.

What's a full Libertarian? Are anarchists "full" Libertarians?

 

[erowe1]

What's a full Libertarian? Are anarchists "full" Libertarians?

It depends on what sense of the word "libertarian" you're using.

In the naked drug using sense, a full libertarian would be someone who wants a complete permanent ban of all clothing and mandatory permanent bath salt highs for all people.

 

[HigherVision]

What's a full Libertarian? Are anarchists "full" Libertarians?

Yes anarcho-capitalism is complete libertarianism as it advocates total adherence to the non-aggression axiom.

 

[cajuncocoa]

It depends on what sense of the word "libertarian" you're using.

In the naked drug using sense, a full libertarian would be someone who wants a complete permanent ban of all clothing and mandatory permanent bath salt highs for all people.

Mandating the actions of other people is antithetical to libertarianism. I wouldn't mandate how other people dress (or whether they choose to get dressed at all). Live and let live ... in peace.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Turns out Rand dances after all...

Rand Paul Embraces Israel

Rand Paul is describing an episode from his trip to Israel in January: “I went to a Shabbat,” he tells me, “it was the first time I’ve ever done that, and I had a wonderful time. I went to the yeshiva, and all the young men were singing and dancing, they had me dancing around the table. I hope I was singing something that was fine — it was all in Hebrew, so I had no idea what I was singing.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/347151/rand-paul-and-israel​

Rand Paul: Proof the apple sometimes falls far away
Here's a message for those that expect all Ron supporters to just Roll Over

Ron Paul Tells Newsmax: I Support Israel link

 

[erowe1]

So nobody from out of state should bother to comment on KY hemp legislature? Nobody out of state should fund his senatorial seat? Last I heard he is a 2016 aspirationista.
What he says and how he says it matters. If his goal is to progress from KY senate.

It's not just that. But the question is too silly to waste time on. Nobody really cares. It's just a way of manufacturing drama on a web forum.

 

[erowe1]

Mandating the actions of other people is antithetical to libertarianism. I wouldn't mandate how other people dress (or whether they choose to get dressed at all). Live and let live ... in peace.

Again, like I said in what you just quoted, that depends on what sense of the word "libertarian" you're using.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

http://libertycrier.com/politics/ra...-run-around-with-no-clothes-on-and-smoke-pot/

Jeez, Rand, way to throw us under the bus...


Rand Paul: I’m Not A Libertarian – I’m Not Advocating Everyone Run Around With No Clothes On And Smoke Pot

May 14, 2013

in Front Page, Philosophy, Politics
Post image for Rand Paul: I’m Not A Libertarian – I’m Not Advocating Everyone Run Around With No Clothes On And Smoke Pot

Earlier this spring, Sen. Rand Paul and his wife, Kelley, invited a crew from the Christian Broadcasting Network into their Kentucky home for what turned into two full days of reality TV. In a half-hour special, “At Home With Rand Paul,” the couple are seen bird-watching in the woods, going to McDonald’s and, especially, talking about religion — their belief in traditional marriage and the senator’s call for a “spiritual cleansing” in America.

The show was an unusual moment for Paul, who has gained fame as a live-and-let-live tea-party hero closely aligned with the libertarian movement inspired by his father, former representative Ron Paul (R-Tex.) — and not as a social conservative…

…“I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot,” he said. “I’m not a libertarian. I’m a libertarian Republican. I’m a constitutional conservative.”

The rollout of the new Paul brand continued Friday night in Iowa, home to the first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses, where he headlined a sold-out Republican Party dinner and drew repeated applause from GOP activists…

Rand Paul: I’m Not A Libertarian – I’m Not Advocating Everyone Run Around With No Clothes On And Smoke Pot.” [full story]

rand-paul-libertarian

Late to the bus, but everyone should have known that Rand is a conservative with libertarian leanings, NOT a libertarian.

Libertarians have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot with name branding. Hell, the stupid rEVOLultion shit was started by libertarians in New Hampshire, from what I remember, and that sort of thing is silly leftist tactics. Libertarians have never really learned.

Nor is he throwing anybody under the bus, as he readily states he is a "libertarian Republican (and CC)." He is simply paraphrasing that he's not what people think libertarians are.

 

[TheTexan]

Ron Paul Tells Newsmax: I Support Israel link

I don't see anything in that article where Ron says he "supports Israel." He only says that we should be friends, trading partners, and stay out of their business - the same thing he says for every country.

If Dr. Paul has said anything more than that in regards to his "support", I would be truly disappointed. Israel is a murderous apartheid state, and to "support" that... is, well.. disturbing.