Rand Paul: Have to Cut Taxes on Top 1 Percent or It’s Not a ‘Significant Tax Cut’

[nikcers]

When you already have a huge deficit, spending needs to be cut before taxes can be. I love low taxes, but we still have to pay for the spending we have authorized, and cutting taxes right now is the definition of passing on our debt to future generations. You can't cut taxes on the hopes that spending goes down - won't happen.

It has nothing to do with spending it has to do with legal plunder. The government shouldn't be able to take things from us or buy things with counterfeit money but those should be separate arguments you can't justify legal plunder with the veiled threat that if you don't take it from us you are going to counterfeit money thats thats a false moral equivalence.

 

[nikcers]

passing on our debt to future generations.

You can't pass debt to people that don't exist, this is actually a democrat talking point designed so that the republicrat machine doesn't pass anything that interrupts the medical industrial complex the education industrial complex the military industrial complex and the banking industrial complex, or big oil.

 

[cocrehamster]

It has nothing to do with spending it has to do with legal plunder. The government shouldn't be able to take things from us or buy things with counterfeit money but those should be separate arguments you can't justify legal plunder with the veiled threat that if you don't take it from us you are going to counterfeit money thats thats a false moral equivalence.

It's still authorizing taxation, which I think it what you mean by "plunder" (it's not the 1800s anymore, Bastiat). And a lot of people will likely see their taxes increase. Nobody who is serious about fiscal responsibility could support the current legislation. You sound like an anarchist or something, so I think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[cocrehamster]

You can't pass debt to people that don't exist, this is actually a democrat talking point designed so that the republicrat machine doesn't pass anything that interrupts the medical industrial complex the education industrial complex the military industrial complex and the banking industrial complex, or big oil.

LOL what? This is an argument that conservatives made against the Obama stimulus and deficits. Was national debt not passed on to the current generation? Yes. When this generation dies, will the debt be paid off? No. It will be passed on to the next generation. You are clueless.

 

[nikcers]

 

[Zippyjuan]

You can't pass debt to people that don't exist, this is actually a democrat talking point designed so that the republicrat machine doesn't pass anything that interrupts the medical industrial complex the education industrial complex the military industrial complex and the banking industrial complex, or big oil.

Simply cutting taxes will do nothing to reduce any of those things. It will only increase the money the government needs to borrow- that increases demand for borrowed money and raises its costs (interest rates) which slows the economy over time.

If debt is not passed down to future generations- who is going to pay it? The current generation? Or will the government default on the people they have borrowed from (which includes a huge chunk of people's retirement plans holding government bonds).

If you want to reduce government, you have to reduce government. Cutting taxes does not get you there. That only works if the government is banned from borrowing like state governments are.

 

[nikcers]

If you want to reduce government, you have to reduce government. Cutting taxes does not get you there. That only works if the government is banned from borrowing like state governments are.

Government will get smaller when the dollar doesn't buy as much. With the unfunded liabilities that we have it will happen, its just a matter of time, Rand is the only one arguing for the idea of individual spending bills, for real budgeting, for real cuts.

 

[nikcers]

LOL what? This is an argument that conservatives made against the Obama stimulus and deficits. Was national debt not passed on to the current generation? Yes. When this generation dies, will the debt be paid off? No. It will be passed on to the next generation. You are clueless.

Fuck conservatives, they are the worst, they vote for huge government spending, there weren't many real conservatives arguing good ideas during Obamas presidency, they usually get attacked for not changing the congress because he hasn't convinced people to cut spending yet, but to act like he isn't the only one trying besides maybe one or two of his friends is a joke. You have a bunch of fake conservatives that pretend to work with Rand Paul because he is the real deal, to get any credibility. If people don't stand up for Rand Paul and believe the fake news the wrong ideas will win.

 

[cocrehamster]

$#@! conservatives, they are the worst, they vote for huge government spending, there weren't many real conservatives arguing good ideas during Obamas presidency, they usually get attacked for not changing the congress because he hasn't convinced people to cut spending yet, but to act like he isn't the only one trying besides maybe one or two of his friends is a joke. You have a bunch of fake conservatives that pretends to work with Rand Paul because he is the real deal, to get any credibility. If people don't stand up for Rand Paul and believe the fake news the wrong ideas will win.

Yeah, you should stop saying fuck Rand - he's a conservative, and wrote this:

"To put a stop to robbing future generations to pay for ever-enlarging government.
Cato’s Michael Tanner, another speaker on the panel mentioned earlier, reported that “[t]he Congressional Budget Office indicates that young people in the midcentury will have income [between $3,000] to $5,000 a year less than they would if this debt didn’t exist.”"

http://rare.us/rare-politics/issues...l-dont-raise-the-debt-ceiling-without-reform/

 

[nikcers]

LOL what? This is an argument that conservatives made against the Obama stimulus and deficits. Was national debt not passed on to the current generation? Yes. When this generation dies, will the debt be paid off? No. It will be passed on to the next generation. You are clueless.

What you are doing is arguing that debt matters, but you can't have managed interest rates and care about debt at the same time. What do you think would happen if the interest rates changed on that debt, do you think there is any amount of taxation that could pay for it? You can't argue that we need less money in the private economy or capitalism, when you won't address the public debt that is strangling the private economy. I am tired of people pretending like the government taxing me is going to stop the inflation, the inflation is there, they are just subsidizing the bread a circus to keep the pyramid scheme going.

 

[cocrehamster]

What you are doing is arguing that debt matters, but you can't have managed interest rates and care about debt at the same time. What do you think would happen if the interest rates changed on that debt, do you think there is any amount of taxation that could pay for it? You can't argue that we need less money in the private economy or capitalism, when you won't address the public debt that is strangling the private economy. I am tired of people pretending like the government taxing me is going to stop the inflation, the inflation is there, they are just subsidizing the bread a circus to keep the pyramid scheme going.

Long term rates, which are not managed, are still low, and were not even impacted when QE stopped. Low rates make sense in the low inflation environment we've been in. Where is the inflation?

 

[cocrehamster]

What you are doing is arguing that debt matters, but you can't have managed interest rates and care about debt at the same time. What do you think would happen if the interest rates changed on that debt, do you think there is any amount of taxation that could pay for it? You can't argue that we need less money in the private economy or capitalism, when you won't address the public debt that is strangling the private economy. I am tired of people pretending like the government taxing me is going to stop the inflation, the inflation is there, they are just subsidizing the bread a circus to keep the pyramid scheme going.

This isn't your question, but what could make the interest rates on the debt increase is irresponsible tax cuts (or spending increases, we're trying to do both simultaneously) without the corresponding spending cuts.

 

[nikcers]

 

[Zippyjuan]

So we should continue with the current system, let debts and government grow, and hope it fails in the future and something beautiful rises from its ashes.

 

[nikcers]

So we should continue with the current system, let debts and government grow, and hope it fails in the future and something beautiful rises from its ashes.

The right solution is not to elect the right people to office, but to make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

 

[Zippyjuan]

The right solution is not to elect the right people to office, but to make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

People get elected by promising to fix problems- real or imagined- for people. That means spending money. But you have to hide the fact that it will actually cost people money. Never mention the costs when you say you have a great program the people are gonna love. Want to not get elected again? Promise to cut those programs. Want to get elected? Promise that they won't have to pay for those programs. Either hide the costs or put them off into the future. Promise to cut their taxes rather than promise them to be responsible and pay for those programs as you go.

How can you change the political incentive for politicians to act differently?

 

[nikcers]

People get elected by promising to fix problems- real or imagined- for people. That means spending money. But you have to hide the fact that it will actually cost people money. Never mention the costs when you say you have a great program the people are gonna love. Want to not get elected again? Promise to cut those programs. Want to get elected? Promise that they won't have to pay for those programs. Either hide the costs or put them off into the future. Promise to cut their taxes rather than promise them to be responsible and pay for those programs as you go.

How can you change the political incentive for politicians to act differently?

By making it politically toxic for politicians to support bad legislation- what do you think Rand Paul has been doing and why he got attacked? He has been fighting the narrative on healthcare by trying to push the narrative that Trump is going to do real tax cuts and real health care reform. He does it so Trump has to put up or shut up, but they made Rand Paul shut up. Hijacking the trojan horse has consequences.

 

[nikcers]

Trump likes to hit people back twice as hard too, we need to have his side.

"Rand Paul, or whoever votes against Hcare Bill, will forever (future political campaigns) be known as 'the Republican who saved ObamaCare,'" -Trump