Rand Paul: Have to Cut Taxes on Top 1 Percent or It’s Not a ‘Significant Tax Cut’

[nikcers]

I don't know how Rand or anyone here can support tax cuts while spending continues to grow. This will cause a massive increase in future deficits.

Tax cuts without government cuts is a myth. Rand supports anything that will reduce that amount of money government takes from people. The tax cut plan is Orwellian doublespeak at its finest, its not real tax cuts

 

[Zippyjuan]

Rand said he voted against the budget bill because it would add to the deficit but now is in full favor of the tax cut bill:

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-sen-paul-lets-pass-big-and-bold-tax-cuts-now

Sen. Rand Paul: Let's pass big and bold tax cuts now!
BY SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY.), OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 10/26/17 08:00 AM EDT

I favor the biggest, boldest tax cut that Congress can pass. I’m 100 percent with President Trump in advocating for a 15 percent corporate rate to keep jobs in America.

I have been and will continue to be a loud voice for across-the-board tax cuts for everyone – rich, poor, and middle class. When the GOP leadership plan first came out, I raised a warning flag and urged the tax plan writers to slow down and make sure they got it right. Some simple calculations were telling us that some middle or upper-middle-class taxpayers could have been subject to a tax hike, if the tax plan eliminated big deductions for the middle class while keeping the 25 percent rate the same.

Meanwhile: https://www.newsmax.com/Politics/rand-paul-hits-senate-budget-deficit/2017/10/17/id/820257/

Rand Paul Hits Senate Budget Over Deficit

Budget hawk Rand Paul threatened Tuesday to oppose the Senate spending plan if it increases the U.S. deficit, a move that could kill the deal in a Senate with a slim Republican majority.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Rand said he voted against the budget bill because it would add to the deficit but now is in full favor of the tax cut bill:

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-sen-paul-lets-pass-big-and-bold-tax-cuts-now



Meanwhile: https://www.newsmax.com/Politics/rand-paul-hits-senate-budget-deficit/2017/10/17/id/820257/

And I bet he wants budget cuts to pay for it.

 

[Zippyjuan]

And I bet he wants budget cuts to pay for it.

Budget cuts should come before tax cuts- not afterwards. The "cuts" to pay for them never seem to materialize.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Budget cuts should come before tax cuts- not afterwards. The "cuts" to pay for them never seem to materialize.

And what is to stop them from being done at the same time in the same bill?

 

[Zippyjuan]

And what is to stop them from being done at the same time in the same bill?

The bill does not address any spending- only taxes. Sure it could be done in theory. In theory, we could have $trillion budget surpluses too and everybody earns $1000 an hour and everything costs a nickel.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The bill does not address any spending- only taxes. Sure it could be done in theory. In theory, we could have $trillion budget surpluses too and everybody earns $1000 an hour and everything costs a nickel.

And Rand hasn't voted yet, the bill isn't done yet, he can still try to add spending cuts while supporting the idea of cutting taxes.

 

[nikcers]

Rand is trying to hold conservatives accountable for things they can cut in a tax bill like the individual mandate. Any real tax reform would need budget reform.

Budget reform and tax reform are not the same and you couldn't possibly do it on the same bill because we have a managed economy, its not like a real tax cut would cut money from the public sector, a tax cut would cut from the private sector, because most of our spending is government intervention.

We could cut income taxes to zero for most Americans and it wouldn't cut one cent from government spending which is only one way the government intervenes with the economy. The goal is to have the least amount of government, or least amount of government intervention possible specifically.

Therefore not voting to cut intervention is not justifiable only because it doesn't reduce the amount of government intervention as much as you would like it to. Rand will cut government intervention anywhere he can.

 

[Zippyjuan]

And Rand hasn't voted yet, the bill isn't done yet, he can still try to add spending cuts while supporting the idea of cutting taxes.

House version already passed and Senate has finished but not voted on theirs- it won't be a lot different (any differences will have to be reconciled and combined into one bill and passed by both houses). Nothing about cutting spending. The budget resolution they passed allows them to add up to $1.5 trillion to the debt. And they are struggling to keep the additional debt that low (which is why they have to say that some of the proposed tax cuts will expire- then they don't count towards the $1.5 trillion- such "temporary" cuts tend to be made permanent later on). Rand says he supports it.

Senate hopes to vote next week- while people are distracted by Christmas shopping.

 

[Swordsmyth]

House version already passed and Senate won't be a lot different (any differences will have to be reconciled and combined into one bill and passed by both houses). Nothing about cutting spending. The budget resolution they passed allows them to add up to $1.5 trillion to the debt. And they are struggling to keep the additional debt that low (which is why they have to say that some of the proposed tax cuts will expire- then they don't count towards the $1.5 trillion- such "temporary" cuts tend to be made permanent later on). Rand says he supports it.

Senate hopes to vote next week- while people are distracted by Christmas shopping.

So it is like I said, Rand hasn't voted yet and there is still time to amend the bill in the Senate or in the reconciliation process.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So it is like I said, Rand hasn't voted yet and there is still time to amend the bill in the Senate or in the reconciliation process.

Amendment time is over. They want to vote on it next week.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Amendment time is over. They want to vote on it next week.

We will see.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Ron always said he would love to get rid of the income tax, but that you had to deal with government spending first or you make the debt situation worse.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...on-tax-cut-is-entering-its-make-or-break-week

If three Republicans vote against it, it will not pass.

The GOP Tax Plan Is Entering Its Make-or-Break Week

The $1.4 trillion item on President Donald Trump’s wish list -- a package of tax cuts for businesses and individuals that he has said he wants to sign before year’s end -- is headed into the legislative equivalent of a Black Friday scrum next week.

Senate Republican leaders plan a make-or-break floor vote on their bill as soon as Thursday -- a dramatic moment that will come only after a marathon debate that could go all night. Democrats are expected to try to delay or derail the measure, and the GOP must hold together at least 50 votes from its thin, 52-vote majority in order to prevail.

Their chances improved this week when Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said she’ll support repealing the “individual mandate” imposed by Obamacare -- a provision that Senate tax writers are counting on to help finance the tax cuts. Murkowski had earlier signaled some reservations about the provision; and her support was widely viewed as a positive sign for the tax bill’s chances.

Three GOP senators -- Bob Corker of Tennessee, Jeff Flake of Arizona and James Lankford of Oklahoma -- have cited concerns about how the measure would affect federal deficits. Independent studies of the legislation have found that -- contrary to its backers’ arguments -- its tax cuts won’t stimulate enough growth to pay for themselves. Both the Senate bill, and one that cleared the House earlier this month, would reduce federal revenue over a decade by roughly $1.4 trillion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

On Wednesday, a report from the Penn Wharton Budget Model at the University of Pennsylvania said the bill would reduce federal revenue in each year from 2028 to 2033. That finding would mean it doesn’t comply with a key budget rule that Senate Republican leaders want to use to pass their bill with a simple majority over Democrats’ objections.

 

[nikcers]

Ron always said he would love to get rid of the income tax, but that you had to deal with government spending first or you make the debt situation worse.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...on-tax-cut-is-entering-its-make-or-break-week

If three Republicans vote against it, it will not pass.

You make it worse by pretending like this isn't a government bailout and call it a tax cut. You make it worse by pretending the Trump government wants to cut taxes. You make it worse by pretending like Rand's vote has any power over this, like he is the deciding vote, when he has been arguing for making real tax cuts, not arguing for passing whatever he can get, he is always trying to get as much of a cut as he can.

 

[Zippyjuan]

You make it worse by pretending like this isn't a government bailout and call it a tax cut. You make it worse by pretending the Trump government wants to cut taxes. You make it worse by pretending like Rand's vote has any power over this, like he is the deciding vote, when he has been arguing for making real tax cuts, not arguing for passing whatever he can get, he is always trying to get as much of a cut as he can.

The Senate vote will be so close every one will matter. The question is priorities- deficits or cutting taxes. If deficits matter, then vote no. If tax cuts are important, then vote yes. Voting for tax cuts usually get you more votes in the next election. Given his statements on the tax cut bill, the debt situation is not as important to Rand.

 

[nikcers]

The Senate vote will be so close every one will matter. The question is priorities- deficits or cutting taxes. If deficits matter, then vote no. If tax cuts are important, then vote yes. Voting for tax cuts usually get you more votes in the next election. Given his statements on the tax cut bill, the debt situation is not as important to Rand.

The senate votes are political theater, one vote doesn't make a difference when the establishment is bipartisan controlled opposition zippy. They don't even bring shit to vote when Rand has the power to stop it from passing, that would make Rand the most popular conservative of our time.

 

[Zippyjuan]

The senate votes are political theater, one vote doesn't make a difference when the establishment is bipartisan controlled opposition zippy. They don't even bring $#@! to vote when Rand has the power to stop it from passing, that would make Rand the most popular conservative of our time.

Rand's votes don't matter but Rand's votes stop legislation. Hmm.

 

[nikcers]

Rand's votes don't matter but Rand's votes stop legislation. Hmm.

Ideas matter, ideas have power, Ron only got audit the fed when he changed peoples mind on the fed, now we need to discuss taxation but you can't really cut taxes without cutting government, and people haven't changed their minds about the role of government. How do you purpose we change peoples minds without forcing the matter. Your wrong about us not being able to cut revenue without increasing taxes somewhere, you can force people to reexamine the role of government -by letting the government programs fail- its something that government could do but they will only do it when people force them to, its the rules because those are the rules we let them play by, we are the masters of government, we just need to put the chains back on.

 

[nikcers]

What better way for a swift economics lesson, Ron Paul became popular because he was proved right after 2008, the intervention didn't stop though even though they called it a great recession it was more like depression with the middle class bailing out the bad economics. The establishment is cannibalizing the dollar and people are being stupid about it, the same people who are for fiat money are destroying it. When your enemies are shooting themselves in the face do you stop them?

 

[cocrehamster]

When you already have a huge deficit, spending needs to be cut before taxes can be. I love low taxes, but we still have to pay for the spending we have authorized, and cutting taxes right now is the definition of passing on our debt to future generations. You can't cut taxes on the hopes that spending goes down - won't happen.