Rand Paul: Confederate flag is “inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery”

...So I approached this issue as I would any other, I did my research, read primary documents, and came to a conclusion based on the evidence. And the evidence points to the argument that the driving force behind secession was the preservation of slavery.

It really does not matter and we should not be judging the entire population of the south over the rich slave owners that were 5% of the population. The other 95% was the average Joe that had no choice other than to lay down and die or fight to protect their families.

You have kids with no choice but to fight to protect themselves and family under the battle flag I do not think slavery would be all that high on the list of their priorities. Why do people have a such a hard time understanding the symbol of that sacrifice of those fighting for their home, families and for today regional cultural pride.
 
It really does not matter and we should not be judging the entire population of the south over the rich slave owners that were 5% of the population. The other 95% was the average Joe that had no choice other than to lay down and die or fight to protect their families.

You have kids with no choice but to fight to protect themselves and family under the battle flag I do not think slavery would be all that high on the list of their priorities. Why do people have a such a hard time understanding the symbol of that sacrifice of those fighting for their home, families and for today regional cultural pride.

I'll take a shot. Because most have no understanding. Because most have not taken the time to research. Because most have been taught by individuals such as Tywysog Cymru. Because a citizenry divided to the point of hatred allows for subservience to a greater power. That power being the Federal government.
 
What Georgia saw was it's economic security was slavery. That's what most of document is about.

Again, this is one state out of 11, and the issue of slavery was intertwined with their agrarian system, that is not being denied, it is simply being identified for what it was, part of the list of grievances of the entire Confederacy. Leave us not forget, slavery was codified as federal law by the U.S. government, so by this standard the entire American U.S. Constitution should have been reset, something I wouldn't mind doing today, albeit for a number of different reasons.

I would be inclined to believe you if Virginia had said something like "Tyrannical designs of President Lincoln to subjugate free Americans." But no, Virginia didn't like that Lincoln was going after fellow slave states. I highly doubt that Virginia would have lifted cared if some Southern fire-eater was elected President and fought a war to keep seceding Northern states in the union.

In other words, you don't care what Virginia had to say on the subject because you have an anachronistic desire to see the Virginia government jump through a bunch of linguistic hoops to suit your fancies. I know black separatists from New York City who think more logically on this subject than you do.

"self-righteous historical revisionists". I love history and want to become a history teacher in the near future. So I approached this issue as I would any other, I did my research, read primary documents, and came to a conclusion based on the evidence. And the evidence points to the argument that the driving force behind secession was the preservation of slavery.

This explains everything, you've taken the entire Federal Government's curriculum as gospel and want to serve it as a priest. Have fun brain-washing the next generation, you're yet another reason why my children aren't setting foot anywhere near a public school.

I'm sorry for what your family went through. I don't see what this has to do with why the southern states seceded.

You told me your family history in order to explain your position, I returned the favor as a courtesy. And kindly don't condescend to me by telling me you're sorry what my family went through, if you truly were, you'd re-evaluate the path your on and the government you are looking to serve. People who think the way that you do were the reason why many of my ancestors died horrible deaths just after escaping being starved to death by the British Crown and Parliament. Freedom is something that somebody else dies for, it was true in Lincoln's war just as much as it was in Bush's.

Also, how do you know what your ancestors thought about banking interests and railroad companies? My pro-union ancestors, to my knowledge, didn't write about their experiences.

My father's side of the family spent several generations as coal miners and were big in the unions that sprung up in the latter half of the 19th century, and it's pretty easy to peace together what was going on from connecting stories my grandfather told me (which were told successively for several generations) with recorded history. Read up on the Molly Maguires and the Pennsylvania Coal Fields, particularly regarding Philadelphia and Reading Railroad and Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company president Franklin B. Gowan (the original robberbaron of Schuylkill County and also a politician, at least until he was ousted by J.P. Morgan). My family was not directly implicated with the Maguires, but they were definitely working the same mines and subjecting to the same terrible conditions that lead one of an early grave at slave wages.

The Pennsylvania Railroad companies, many of which were indistinguishable from the Coal Companies at the time, were heavily involved in Abraham Lincoln's nomination and subsequent election in 1860. This is not something under dispute, nor is the reasons behind why so many people in the Pennsylvania Coal Fields were subjected to brutal conditions in order to fatten petty tyrants like the ones who made Lincoln president, so-called "industrialists" who bragged about how they were going to game the entire political system, pillage the southern states and later use the Union Army as a termination squad for resistant Sioux, Cherokee and Apache peoples who didn't want railroads crossing through their territory. I should probably also mention that one of ancestors on my mother's side took a Lakota-Sioux wife soon after the Civil War, so technically both sides of my family have their reasons for saying "to hell with the union".

I didn't build my ideas of the civil war off of any textbook. For the record, I was home-schooled during elementary schooled and was exposed to a lot of neo-Confederate propaganda in middle school by at least one teacher and several students.

That's fine, I spent 12 years Pennsylvania and Maryland public schools, and everything you've said is all but a verbatim rehash of what they tried to force into my head. Granted, I did believe a lot of this stuff until after I graduated college and began digging into my family's history and also reading selected works by Thomas DiLorenzo and a few others.

I've known black people who went to segregated schools, including one pastor who hates Obama. He wouldn't share your views on civil rights though.

If this is some attempt at playing at my emotions, you're wasting your time. I've known too many products of integrated schools in Philadelphia and Baltimore to be moved by an exception to the rule. Besides, statistical data trumps our respective anecdotal experiences, and the fruits of the Civil Rights movement are best explained through Obama's ridiculously high approval ratings among black voters, and also how said people treat each other on a daily basis from Los Angeles to Philadelphia. The biggest city in my state can't seem to go a single day without some poor kid or other bystander getting shot by a Crip or Blood who wants respect.

Maybe your pastor buddy has something to say about all the out-of-wedlock babies that started popping up after busing went into effect? Just a thought.
 
Please read the link in post #494 and get back to me.

That's all great, but I'm looking for a primary source like what I linked to. Even if North Carolina had a different reason for secession than the other Confederate States, that doesn't disprove my statement that slavery was the main reason for the founding of the Confederacy.

Meh, skip it. Your mind is closed to the subject. You'll make a great teacher.

I've changed my mind on Lincoln (while I was in public high school). But my opinion on the Confederacy remains the same because I don't find the pro-Confederate arguments convincing in the slightest.

It really does not matter and we should not be judging the entire population of the south over the rich slave owners that were 5% of the population. The other 95% was the average Joe that had no choice other than to lay down and die or fight to protect their families.

You have kids with no choice but to fight to protect themselves and family under the battle flag I do not think slavery would be all that high on the list of their priorities. Why do people have a such a hard time understanding the symbol of that sacrifice of those fighting for their home, families and for today regional cultural pride.

I'm not talking about the Confederate military, but the politicians. I actually think that Lee and Jackson were great people. The Confederate politicians were the ones who wanted to preserve slavery.

I'll take a shot. Because most have no understanding.

I read the secession declarations, and understand them. And from reading them it seems clear that slavery was the driving force behind secession.

Because most have not taken the time to research.

I did my research.

Because most have been taught by individuals such as Tywysog Cymru.

How many people were taught that the Great Depression would have ended earlier if the market had been allowed to correct itself. How many were taught that Coolidge and Van Buren were among the greatest Presidents our nation has ever had.

Because a citizenry divided to the point of hatred allows for subservience to a greater power. That power being the Federal government.

I don't want to divide people, the Confederate flag divides people. If we are ever going to take our country back, we're going to need white southerners, but we're also going to need blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, Northerners, immigrants, etc. The rebel flag means heritage to some white southerners but to blacks it means slavery and racism. It should never be associated with the struggle for liberty.

Again, this is one state out of 11, and the issue of slavery was intertwined with their agrarian system, that is not being denied, it is simply being identified for what it was, part of the list of grievances of the entire Confederacy. Leave us not forget, slavery was codified as federal law by the U.S. government, so by this standard the entire American U.S. Constitution should have been reset, something I wouldn't mind doing today, albeit for a number of different reasons.

Four of the five states that I can find primary sources for clearly seceded over slavery.

In other words, you don't care what Virginia had to say on the subject because you have an anachronistic desire to see the Virginia government jump through a bunch of linguistic hoops to suit your fancies. I know black separatists from New York City who think more logically on this subject than you do.

Virginia certainly had no problem being associated with a group of states that stated their desires to secede to preserve slavery.

This explains everything, you've taken the entire Federal Government's curriculum as gospel and want to serve it as a priest. Have fun brain-washing the next generation, you're yet another reason why my children aren't setting foot anywhere near a public school.

How dare I go into the public schools and fight the system from within? I should just let America's children never hear about liberty and just teach it to my own children and write blog posts on the internet.

You told me your family history in order to explain your position, I returned the favor as a courtesy. And kindly don't condescend to me by telling me you're sorry what my family went through, if you truly were, you'd re-evaluate the path your on and the government you are looking to serve. People who think the way that you do were the reason why many of my ancestors died horrible deaths just after escaping being starved to death by the British Crown and Parliament. Freedom is something that somebody else dies for, it was true in Lincoln's war just as much as it was in Bush's.

And like in the case of Bush's war, I don't have to like Saddam Hussein to oppose the war.

My father's side of the family spent several generations as coal miners and were big in the unions that sprung up in the latter half of the 19th century, and it's pretty easy to peace together what was going on from connecting stories my grandfather told me (which were told successively for several generations) with recorded history. Read up on the Molly Maguires and the Pennsylvania Coal Fields, particularly regarding Philadelphia and Reading Railroad and Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company president Franklin B. Gowan (the original robberbaron of Schuylkill County and also a politician, at least until he was ousted by J.P. Morgan). My family was not directly implicated with the Maguires, but they were definitely working the same mines and subjecting to the same terrible conditions that lead one of an early grave at slave wages.

The Pennsylvania Railroad companies, many of which were indistinguishable from the Coal Companies at the time, were heavily involved in Abraham Lincoln's nomination and subsequent election in 1860. This is not something under dispute, nor is the reasons behind why so many people in the Pennsylvania Coal Fields were subjected to brutal conditions in order to fatten petty tyrants like the ones who made Lincoln president, so-called "industrialists" who bragged about how they were going to game the entire political system, pillage the southern states and later use the Union Army as a termination squad for resistant Sioux, Cherokee and Apache peoples who didn't want railroads crossing through their territory. I should probably also mention that one of ancestors on my mother's side took a Lakota-Sioux wife soon after the Civil War, so technically both sides of my family have their reasons for saying "to hell with the union".

I'm not defending the Union.

That's fine, I spent 12 years Pennsylvania and Maryland public schools, and everything you've said is all but a verbatim rehash of what they tried to force into my head. Granted, I did believe a lot of this stuff until after I graduated college and began digging into my family's history and also reading selected works by Thomas DiLorenzo and a few others.

I've read some of Dilorenzo's articles on LRC, I wasn't convinced.

If this is some attempt at playing at my emotions, you're wasting your time. I've known too many products of integrated schools in Philadelphia and Baltimore to be moved by an exception to the rule. Besides, statistical data trumps our respective anecdotal experiences, and the fruits of the Civil Rights movement are best explained through Obama's ridiculously high approval ratings among black voters, and also how said people treat each other on a daily basis from Los Angeles to Philadelphia. The biggest city in my state can't seem to go a single day without some poor kid or other bystander getting shot by a Crip or Blood who wants respect.

Maybe your pastor buddy has something to say about all the out-of-wedlock babies that started popping up after busing went into effect? Just a thought.

So, you connect busing to babies born out of wedlock, but when I connect a member of an anti-slavery party being elected President to the slave states leaving the union, you disagree with me.
 
I just happened to be watching FOX News a few moments ago. I have to admit, I'm not a history buff. But I did learn, that for almost 100 years slavery ran under the United States flag. The Confederate flag came about when the South wished to seceed from the United States.
 
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Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist
And I checked those "other" sources you cited and NONE of them point to any actual numbers or study to support the BS claim. One of those you cited further went on to say that the "highest" number of slaves rose to 20% of the population. How do you reconcile those two "statistics"? How can the greatest number of slaves be only 20% of the population and yet 43% of "households" had slaves???

It's BS, BS, BS, BS, BS!!!


I have no idea whether those numbers (20 & 43) are correct, but it would not be at all difficult to reconcile them.

For example, assume a population of 1000 people with 200 households (indicating an average of 5 people per household).

If the number of slaves is 20% of the population, then there would be 200 slaves (1000 people x 0.20 = 200 slaves).
If 43% of households own slaves, then there would be 86 slave-owning households (200 households x 0.43 = 86 slave-owning households).

This would mean that there would be an average of about 2.3 slaves per slave-owning household (200 slaves / 86 slave-owning households = 2.3).

Um, you kinda forgot about the RICH PEOPLE point I made... Only people with money could afford to own slaves and your numbers assume that the 43% of households would have the funds to own a slave if they want to. Indeed, there were some rich people who did not want slaves and did not believe in the institution.

Your numbers (based on the fictitious numbers cited in the stories) prove my point quite clearly. You would need to believe that 43% of all households at that time were in the wealthy class. Your blacksmiths, bartenders, stage coach drivers, and pretty much most of those that society needs to get by would have to be able to afford slaves (at least a good portion of them would). This is not the reality of any society. Only a small percentage of any city would fall into the wealthy category (I am going to guess 12% without even so much as a google search - prove me wrong...)
 
I just happened to be watching FOX News a few moments ago. I have to admit, I'm not a history buff. But I did learn, that for almost 100 years slavery ran under the United States flag. The Confederate flag came about when the South wished to seceed from the United States.

Slavery was legal in this country for 224 years under the US flag and it's colonial predecessors. Slave boats flew it. The confederate battle flags flew for the last 4 years of that and were never flown on a slave ship.

The emancipation declaration signed by Lincoln, while credited with ending slavery, in fact did nothing. The north was exempt and had more slaves than the south.

Here's what the lefties want to go after next:

Go ISIS on Thomas Jefferson Memorial
Ban Gone with the wind
Some kind of white rice
Aunt Jamima Syrup

-t
 
Um, you kinda forgot about the RICH PEOPLE point I made... Only people with money could afford to own slaves and your numbers assume that the 43% of households would have the funds to own a slave if they want to. Indeed, there were some rich people who did not want slaves and did not believe in the institution.

Your numbers (based on the fictitious numbers cited in the stories) prove my point quite clearly. You would need to believe that 43% of all households at that time were in the wealthy class. Your blacksmiths, bartenders, stage coach drivers, and pretty much most of those that society needs to get by would have to be able to afford slaves (at least a good portion of them would). This is not the reality of any society. Only a small percentage of any city would fall into the wealthy category (I am going to guess 12% without even so much as a google search - prove me wrong...)

I didn't forget anything. You asked, "How do you reconcile those two 'statistics'? How can the greatest number of slaves be only 20% of the population and yet 43% of 'households' had slaves???" (You did not present this question with any qualifications concerning "rich people.")

I showed how easily those particular numbers could be reconciled. My point - my only point - was that the "greatest number of slaves" could have been "only 20% of the the population" while "43% of 'households' had slaves" - which is what you asked about. I have no idea whether the given numbers are accurate or completely bogus. (Nor do I have any idea how many "rich people" there were or how much it cost to own slaves.) I merely pointed out that the given numbers are not at all irreconcilable.
 
Four of the five states that I can find primary sources for clearly seceded over slavery.

Among other grievances.

Virginia certainly had no problem being associated with a group of states that stated their desires to secede to preserve slavery.

Virginia was being threatened by Lincoln's government with invasion if they didn't join in and send their sons to invade the slave-holding states. Given the choice, I would have told Uncle Sam to go pound sand and join the other side as well, even though I have greater sympathies with the abolitionists on the slave issue both morally and theologically speaking.

How dare I go into the public schools and fight the system from within? I should just let America's children never hear about liberty and just teach it to my own children and write blog posts on the internet.

The system will more likely change you, or otherwise spew you out when it gets wind of what you are doing, poison trees don't yield good fruit. I'm pretty well convinced that the current public school system needs to wither on the vine and private institutions and home-schooling need to replace it, particularly at the elementary levels.

And like in the case of Bush's war, I don't have to like Saddam Hussein to oppose the war.

Not liking Saddam Hussein is fine, I didn't either, but validating the rationale for his ouster by playing into it, particularly if it is either false or true but misleading, is another matter entirely.

I'm not defending the Union.

I believe you are skeptical about Lincoln, but apart from that you have generally met all of the qualifications of a Union apologist, at least with regard to the Civil War.

I've read some of Dilorenzo's articles on LRC, I wasn't convinced.

I've read all of his books, as well as his articles, I was.

So, you connect busing to babies born out of wedlock, but when I connect a member of an anti-slavery party being elected President to the slave states leaving the union, you disagree with me.

Yep, you got it. Busing destroyed both black and lower to middle class white communities by government fiat, and further aggravated existing hostilities. Blacks actually had a lower divorce rate than whites prior to the Civil Rights movement. You can blame a good chunk of this on Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, but that was also heavily intertwined with the Civil Rights movement and was not opposed by it.

Extreme rhetoric from the Abolitionist movement probably scared some politicians involved in drafting the declarations of secession, especially in South Carolina and Georgia, which were the most radical states on that front, but ignoring the economic angle as it pertains to both the southern agrarians and the northern industrialists is tantamount to rewriting history, a hallmark of the dominant Marxist tendencies of the current education system. Whether intentionally or not, you and others on this thread are playing into it.
 
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I'm not talking about the Confederate military, but the politicians. I actually think that Lee and Jackson were great people. The Confederate politicians were the ones who wanted to preserve slavery.

So did Lincoln for a time. The Corwin Amendment which he supported would have made institutionalized slavery impervious to the constitutional amendment procedures and immune to abolition or interference by Congress. It passed Congress and was sent to the state legislatures.

Take a look at the Corwin Amendment and Lincolns first inaugural address and tell me whether you still think the war was fought over slavery.

Corwin Amendment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment, noting that Buchanan had approved it.

The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification.[1] Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay.[2] Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.[

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment, noting that Buchanan had approved it.

The Corwin Amendment was the second proposed "Thirteenth Amendment" submitted to the states by Congress. The first was the similarly ill-fated Titles of Nobility Amendment in 1810.

Attempted withdrawal of the Corwin Amendment

On February 8, 1864, during the 38th Congress, with the prospects for a Union victory improving, Republican Senator Henry B. Anthony of Rhode Island introduced Senate (Joint) Resolution No. 25[20] to withdraw the Corwin Amendment from further consideration by the state legislatures and to halt the ratification process. That same day, Anthony's joint resolution was referred to the Senate's Committee on the Judiciary. On May 11, 1864, Illinois Senator Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, received the Senate's permission to discharge Senate (Joint) Resolution No. 25 from the Committee, with no further action having been taken on Anthony's joint resolution.[21]

Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
Monday, March 4, 1861
....
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them; and more than this, they placed in the platform for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes....
....

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Full text here: http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres31.html
 
Apple removed all Civil War games that included the confederate flag from their app store. The General Lee is being revamped on Dukes of Hazards items. Farrakhan took the flag issue to the logical extreme and suggested that the American flag be shunned as well.

The pendulum is swinging much too hard in this direction, already, and rational folks are starting to see how preposterous the SJWs and Progressives really are as they press for censorship and erasing actual history.

The nuanced view wins here -- Rand wins here. Governments should no longer embrace the flag. Popular sentiment has turned against it. As we are seeing now, those who originally pushed for governments to retire the flag are overreaching, and popular sentiment will soon turn against them. I saw we get out of the way and give them all the space they need to look insane.

there are extremes concerning the censorship of the Confederate Flag & the fervor some have taken to it who do not have ancestors
who fought under it or any of the standards carried by units of the Southern armies. it has been 150 years since the ending of our great
civil war and we are still healing as a nation. i heartily respect doctor rand paul for his nuanced view & sensibilities, as he helps us heal.
 
A true Fascist who'd be the tyrant who would end our Republic clearly would view Auld Glory and Dixie's flag as tidy & trim stage props,
each "narrow~cast" in a very political manner, each as a means to an end and not an ultimate goal. a demagogue plays with symbols,
they steal ideas when it suits them. the great national tragedy of 150 years ago actually has no pull on this would be tyrant or anti-christ.
 
Cited earlier and I found the "original" source at wikipedia...

I call "BULLSHIT"!! There's no source referenced at wikipedia (usually a no-no). The figure itself makes no mathematical sense. How can 42% of "households" have slaves?? You had to be pretty wealthy to have a slave. They were expensive and your "average" joe sure couldn't afford to have one. Are we to believe that 42% of "households" in New York city were wealthy? Pretty hard to believe and for those reasons I don't believe it (not to mention there's no quoted source for this other than an unreferenced quote at wiki).

People always fall for "statistics" even when they are simply make up from whole cloth...

I didn't forget anything. You asked, "How do you reconcile those two 'statistics'? How can the greatest number of slaves be only 20% of the population and yet 43% of 'households' had slaves???" (You did not present this question with any qualifications concerning "rich people.")

I showed how easily those particular numbers could be reconciled. My point - my only point - was that the "greatest number of slaves" could have been "only 20% of the the population" while "43% of 'households' had slaves" - which is what you asked about. I have no idea whether the given numbers are accurate or completely bogus. (Nor do I have any idea how many "rich people" there were or how much it cost to own slaves.) I merely pointed out that the given numbers are not at all irreconcilable.

Yes you did reconcile those two numbers but as shown above my original post and point were that 42% of the households would have to be classified as "wealthy" and that the real numbers of wealthy people is way below that. I'm also trying to get people to THINK about what they are reading whether it's in a history book, science book or news source. After 63 years on this globe I've learned one thing for sure... MOST of what you read is BS. I don't even have to "research" the statistics to determine this (although it helps to have the hard numbers if they even exist). Think about what you are reading and then compare that to your own real world experiences and try to imagine how what the writer is telling you can exist. We all know that most people are not wealthy. We may not have "actual numbers" in our brains but we can make a good estimate by looking around us. The "weakest" part of my argument is that I'm claiming that there's no way that 42% of households were wealthy enough to own slaves. That is the "attack" that needs to be made to contradict me. Is it possible that any community has that large number of wealthy people? (other than small local "gated" type communities)
 
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It is unfortunate, that even today, the purpose of the states' secession and the civil war is buried so deep, even those I consider smart and educated can so easily miss it.
 
It is unfortunate, that even today, the purpose of the states' secession and the civil war is buried so deep, even those I consider smart and educated can so easily miss it.

Just wait. This is the tip of the iceberg. Soon there will be no states rights and if you support states rights you will be deemed a traitor.
If they can effectively ban a symbol, speech and thought are next. That's what some don't get. Ultimately it's not about the slavery of the past, but the slavery of the future.
 
It is unfortunate, that even today, the purpose of the states' secession and the civil war is buried so deep, even those I consider smart and educated can so easily miss it.

It's called "Social Conditioning" and it's effect is constant throughout history. I wrote about it here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...Examples-of-differences-between-USA-and-China

We need to recognize it and call it out when we see it. It's an invisible hazard to liberty that doesn't even have to have an "author". Sometimes this conditioning just "happens" without any author or reason. I cited a few examples in the thread comparing China to USA and some of the goofy things we seem to accept even though they make NO sense...
 
Just wait. This is the tip of the iceberg. Soon there will be no states rights and if you support states rights you will be deemed a traitor.
If they can effectively ban a symbol, speech and thought are next. That's what some don't get. Ultimately it's not about the slavery of the past, but the slavery of the future.

But they can't effectively ban a symbol.

And there are plenty of big voices speaking out against the absurdity of trying among leftist blacks.
 
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