CaptLouAlbano
Banned
- Joined
- May 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,552
That's why I estimated 15 in my above post. He raised I think about 25 last run right?
Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell: Odd-couple allies
- Thread starter cajuncocoa
- Start date
That's why I estimated 15 in my above post. He raised I think about 25 last run right?
BamaFanNKy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Messages
- 8,924
Nah. It was about 16 million.
CaptLouAlbano
Banned
- Joined
- May 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,552
Ok well at least then those who want to primary him have a number to shoot for.
Badger Paul
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2007
- Messages
- 3,718
Forget Jesse Benton, who, if you believe Penny Langford-Freeman, is a buffoon who many members of the Paul "family" consider the sap of the tree.
But even the black sheep are useful if you have strict, defined roles for them to carry out and for Jesse that's being an intermediary between the Pauls and the media and others persons outside of the "Family", which is basically what he did for the 2012 campaign. He decided who got access and who didn't, sort of a castle guard if you will as Tom Woods and Adam Kokesh and others found out to their chagrin. And it allows the media to see him as the fellow in charge (even though he never was "officially" campaign manager) and see the Pauls as a family operation while the real decisions were being made by Rand, Trygve Olson and John Tate and Debbie Hopper. Indeed if you believe Langford-Freeman, Jesse's role was basically to speak out loud whatever Olson would whisper to him. Olson, whose former role in the politico-intelligence field was destabilizing governments, probably prefers working incognito, being the power behind the throne than having a public role. If you understand this then you'll understand Benton's usefulness in being a front man.
By putting it in these terms then we won't make the mistake of elevating Benton beyond the hack that he really is. He's the typical sort of political junkie you'll find bouncing around the D.C. area looking for any kind of work they can scrape up for themselves (a think think, a lobbying group, a staffer for some first-term Congressman). As Kent Snyder himself said, Benton was "unemployable and willing to work cheap" which made him the perfect hire for a campaign in 2008 which wasn't designed or planned to win anything. Benton didn't know anything about Ron Paul. But once he did he realized that the way you get close to Paul, outside of longtime mutual friendship (ala Lew Rockwell for example), is by being a member of the Family, which is exactly what he did by marrying the boss's granddaughter. As we all know RP is loath to trust anyone outside the Family. It was probably the smartest move Jesse's made in five years.
So if Jesse's Mitch McConnell's campaign chairman for 2014 it's because McConnell thinks he's so secure even Jesse can't screw it up. And by having him, again, out in front, it discourages any potential Tea Party challengers. His hire, along with Rand's early endorsement, protects him from intra-party challenge. You can try but you won't be getting any donor lists or money from the Family that's for sure. Good luck to you.
The real story is the relationship between Rand and Mitch. This relationship is not so much friendship but one of mutual interests. Rand's not adverse to hitching his star to an establishment figure (and you can't get more establishment than McConnell) if he thinks it will benefit him. If McConnell wasn't the party leader and senior senator from Rand's home state the relationship might be different and Rand might take more of a Jim DeMint role in the Senate. But Rand is going places, DeMint isn't and Rand probably figures, and he's probably right, being under the wing of Mitch McConnell will help his ambitions better than being a gadfly like his father was. For McConnell, Rand is useful in keeping DeMint from challenging his leadership. He hopes to become majority leader again and doesn't want to have to worry about someone taking it away from him. Without Rand, DeMint can't mount a credible challenge. And when you think about it realistically, for Rand to be a part of any challenge to McConnell would tear the GOP in Kentucky apart and put his own career in peril. Rand is too smart to do that.
Go back to 2010 just after Rand won the primary. He dumps his campaign manager, Dave Adams, who helped him beat McConnell's machine candidate, for Jesse. At the time it was sold was a way for Benton to get more campaign experience to help Ron out in 2012. The reality of course Jesse was fronting for McConnell's man Trygve Olson and Olson was running the show for McConnell. But the question is why dump Adams for one of McConnell's proteges? Because McConnell pulled out one of the oldest political maneuvers in the book: If you can't beat em' join 'em. Or have them join you. And after the whole Maddow interview fiasco Rand was willing to listen as McConnell no doubt bluntly told him he would need NRSCC money (which McConnell controlled) and McConnell's organization to beat the Democrats, who were going to use the interview and other things they dug up against Rand and spend 4-to-5 times what Rand could raise from money bombs, the Club for Growth or DeMint's PAC for TV ads distorting Rand's remarks and campaign positions. There's no doubt McConnell flattered Rand, said he was the future of the party and that he (McConnell) would help him get to the top by offering money and access to big player donors and persons in high places. As I said, as Kentucky's senior senator and Republican leader in the Senate, it was an offer Rand could not refuse. Even though Rand had beaten McConnell's hand-picked candidate in the primary, Rand didn't feel himself to be in a position to turn down McConell's help. If he had, chances are McConnell would not have endorsed Rand and other Republicans in state would have taken it as a signal not to help him either. Instead of being Senator Paul he could have easily wound up like Christine O'Donnell. And the same is true if Rand wants to run for President. If he doesn't have the backing of the state's Republican politicians, including McConnell, he has no chance.
I'm not trying to justify Rand's Faustian bargain. I'm just trying to explain why he made it in the first place. The danger of course with all this political maneuvering, is the message gets watered down or lost. With Ron you never had to worry about this because he was his own man and had his own powerbase. He didn't have to rely on patrons. He could do what he wanted. But winning a CD compared to winning a state are two different things and I'm sure we're all aware, Ron is no politician. In fact he hates politics. He only uses it as a means to larger purpose, getting out the message. But Rand likes politics and is willing to do those political things that many find distasteful but also many us find necessary to survive and thrive.
The larger question for all of us is not how we change the politics, which as part of the natural relationships between human beings does not change, but make the politics fit the message. In other words, Rand might be more willing to be like his father, especially on foreign policy or the drug war, if its was to his political benefit. And to do that, we have to change the debate, change the culture and change minds. That's what we need to do over the next four years, not worry about what little Jesse Benton is doing or not doing. Who cares? If you change the debate to make it more politically beneficial to be non-interventionist in the Republican Party and to oppose the Drug War, then Rand will be there with you and a whole lot of other people as well.
But even the black sheep are useful if you have strict, defined roles for them to carry out and for Jesse that's being an intermediary between the Pauls and the media and others persons outside of the "Family", which is basically what he did for the 2012 campaign. He decided who got access and who didn't, sort of a castle guard if you will as Tom Woods and Adam Kokesh and others found out to their chagrin. And it allows the media to see him as the fellow in charge (even though he never was "officially" campaign manager) and see the Pauls as a family operation while the real decisions were being made by Rand, Trygve Olson and John Tate and Debbie Hopper. Indeed if you believe Langford-Freeman, Jesse's role was basically to speak out loud whatever Olson would whisper to him. Olson, whose former role in the politico-intelligence field was destabilizing governments, probably prefers working incognito, being the power behind the throne than having a public role. If you understand this then you'll understand Benton's usefulness in being a front man.
By putting it in these terms then we won't make the mistake of elevating Benton beyond the hack that he really is. He's the typical sort of political junkie you'll find bouncing around the D.C. area looking for any kind of work they can scrape up for themselves (a think think, a lobbying group, a staffer for some first-term Congressman). As Kent Snyder himself said, Benton was "unemployable and willing to work cheap" which made him the perfect hire for a campaign in 2008 which wasn't designed or planned to win anything. Benton didn't know anything about Ron Paul. But once he did he realized that the way you get close to Paul, outside of longtime mutual friendship (ala Lew Rockwell for example), is by being a member of the Family, which is exactly what he did by marrying the boss's granddaughter. As we all know RP is loath to trust anyone outside the Family. It was probably the smartest move Jesse's made in five years.
So if Jesse's Mitch McConnell's campaign chairman for 2014 it's because McConnell thinks he's so secure even Jesse can't screw it up. And by having him, again, out in front, it discourages any potential Tea Party challengers. His hire, along with Rand's early endorsement, protects him from intra-party challenge. You can try but you won't be getting any donor lists or money from the Family that's for sure. Good luck to you.
The real story is the relationship between Rand and Mitch. This relationship is not so much friendship but one of mutual interests. Rand's not adverse to hitching his star to an establishment figure (and you can't get more establishment than McConnell) if he thinks it will benefit him. If McConnell wasn't the party leader and senior senator from Rand's home state the relationship might be different and Rand might take more of a Jim DeMint role in the Senate. But Rand is going places, DeMint isn't and Rand probably figures, and he's probably right, being under the wing of Mitch McConnell will help his ambitions better than being a gadfly like his father was. For McConnell, Rand is useful in keeping DeMint from challenging his leadership. He hopes to become majority leader again and doesn't want to have to worry about someone taking it away from him. Without Rand, DeMint can't mount a credible challenge. And when you think about it realistically, for Rand to be a part of any challenge to McConnell would tear the GOP in Kentucky apart and put his own career in peril. Rand is too smart to do that.
Go back to 2010 just after Rand won the primary. He dumps his campaign manager, Dave Adams, who helped him beat McConnell's machine candidate, for Jesse. At the time it was sold was a way for Benton to get more campaign experience to help Ron out in 2012. The reality of course Jesse was fronting for McConnell's man Trygve Olson and Olson was running the show for McConnell. But the question is why dump Adams for one of McConnell's proteges? Because McConnell pulled out one of the oldest political maneuvers in the book: If you can't beat em' join 'em. Or have them join you. And after the whole Maddow interview fiasco Rand was willing to listen as McConnell no doubt bluntly told him he would need NRSCC money (which McConnell controlled) and McConnell's organization to beat the Democrats, who were going to use the interview and other things they dug up against Rand and spend 4-to-5 times what Rand could raise from money bombs, the Club for Growth or DeMint's PAC for TV ads distorting Rand's remarks and campaign positions. There's no doubt McConnell flattered Rand, said he was the future of the party and that he (McConnell) would help him get to the top by offering money and access to big player donors and persons in high places. As I said, as Kentucky's senior senator and Republican leader in the Senate, it was an offer Rand could not refuse. Even though Rand had beaten McConnell's hand-picked candidate in the primary, Rand didn't feel himself to be in a position to turn down McConell's help. If he had, chances are McConnell would not have endorsed Rand and other Republicans in state would have taken it as a signal not to help him either. Instead of being Senator Paul he could have easily wound up like Christine O'Donnell. And the same is true if Rand wants to run for President. If he doesn't have the backing of the state's Republican politicians, including McConnell, he has no chance.
I'm not trying to justify Rand's Faustian bargain. I'm just trying to explain why he made it in the first place. The danger of course with all this political maneuvering, is the message gets watered down or lost. With Ron you never had to worry about this because he was his own man and had his own powerbase. He didn't have to rely on patrons. He could do what he wanted. But winning a CD compared to winning a state are two different things and I'm sure we're all aware, Ron is no politician. In fact he hates politics. He only uses it as a means to larger purpose, getting out the message. But Rand likes politics and is willing to do those political things that many find distasteful but also many us find necessary to survive and thrive.
The larger question for all of us is not how we change the politics, which as part of the natural relationships between human beings does not change, but make the politics fit the message. In other words, Rand might be more willing to be like his father, especially on foreign policy or the drug war, if its was to his political benefit. And to do that, we have to change the debate, change the culture and change minds. That's what we need to do over the next four years, not worry about what little Jesse Benton is doing or not doing. Who cares? If you change the debate to make it more politically beneficial to be non-interventionist in the Republican Party and to oppose the Drug War, then Rand will be there with you and a whole lot of other people as well.
Last edited:
Liberty74
Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2011
- Messages
- 2,949
Oh please, this is very BAD. Just more evidence of co-opting occurring. Nothing good can come of this if one truly understands the purpose of the two party criminal system and why it's set up that way.
Just another reason to bolt the GOP at the national level and take over the Indy Party to offer real change for once.
i've spent the morning looking at my old "borat' or bob barr postings as i think again
about our own stevemartin from aroostook taking on gentleman mitt that time
and in the interum "Badger Paul" somewhat cynically and brilliantly has spelled out
the lay of the kentucky landscape. senators mitch mcconnell & doctor rand paul
do not want to be unseated by jack conway in any hurry or by anyone of his ilk, but
if jesse's only function is to set up a strategic bufferzone inside the campaign,
what does mitch mcconnell gain from this all other than the fact that jesse benton
also knows the people around rand paul & ron paul as well as quite a few of the
people bob barr had around him at one point. we again are debating how deeply we
can go inside the 'innards" of the GOP and the choises we make each day thusly.
we knew this would not be easy or simple to understand, and we need to think it thru.
about our own stevemartin from aroostook taking on gentleman mitt that time
and in the interum "Badger Paul" somewhat cynically and brilliantly has spelled out
the lay of the kentucky landscape. senators mitch mcconnell & doctor rand paul
do not want to be unseated by jack conway in any hurry or by anyone of his ilk, but
if jesse's only function is to set up a strategic bufferzone inside the campaign,
what does mitch mcconnell gain from this all other than the fact that jesse benton
also knows the people around rand paul & ron paul as well as quite a few of the
people bob barr had around him at one point. we again are debating how deeply we
can go inside the 'innards" of the GOP and the choises we make each day thusly.
we knew this would not be easy or simple to understand, and we need to think it thru.
Last edited:
fr33
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,471
Are endorsements the only thing you follow in politics?
July
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,427
It's not going to happen, until such time that there are significant numbers of independent minded folks in power. Cart before the horse...
Deborah K
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 17,997
This whole thing just feels like another co-opt to me. The entrenched republican establishment (which McConnell is -make no mistake about it) knows how to co-opt. They did it to the Tea Party, and now they're doing it to certain factions of the freedom movement. Rand is about to lie in a bed of snakes.
BamaFanNKy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Messages
- 8,924
How many times have you talked to Rand or his staff? Are you familiar with the GOP now backing Hemp production in Kentucky? Or the mountain of other legislation that was never thought to be pushed in Kentucky? How about Chris Hightower now having a good shot at winning a State House seat or Massie winning in N. Ky.
Deborah K
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 17,997
I've talked to Rand one time. So what? Good for Kentucky pushing through good legislation. What has that to do with McConnell's agenda, past voting record, and ties with entrenched establishment types?
July
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,427
There are potential co-opting forces everywhere, all of the time. Anytime you get involved in politics at any level, the danger is there. The only way to prevent the threat is to extract yourself from the system and avoid politics completely...and even then, that is not 100%. There has to be another way of dealing with it, other than fear.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
- Messages
- 40,021
This. The only things that really matter are his senate votes and actions (such as fillibustering - in regards to which, see, for example, foreign aid to Pakistan/Libya).
Otherwise, he can sing "The Internationale" before every public appearance, for all I care.
specsaregood
Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 39,143
//
Last edited:
Deborah K
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 17,997
I'm not a political strategist by any stretch, and time will certainly tell who is co-opting whom. But based on what we all just went through, i.e. all of the vote flipping, fraud, and corruption during the primaries, state and national conventions, do you really believe tptb will EVER let a Paul have the Presidency - unless he is corruptable? Rand is clearly not Ron, but he is the 'chosen one' to carry Ron's mantle, and if he is FOR adherence to the Constitution, and thus, national and individual sovereignty, then his objectives are not in line with the globalist agenda.
Food for thought.
BamaFanNKy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Messages
- 8,924
People who think that Rand is being co-opted are not paying attention. Ron was awful at politics. He was relevant to a small group of voters. He did matter and lit a fire under many new voices. That said, Rand learned from his dad's mistakes and is trying to position ourselves more in power. Some of you believe a steamroller strategy will work.... Good. Keep that up. We need people to work any way they can to advance liberty. Just stop attacking people for trying their way to move the ball.
Carlybee
Member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 10,255
The problem would be electibility. If Rand decides to run for president and he is aligned with all these neocon and pseudo Tea Party people he will only get support from those types of people and it will not only re-energize the Dems but could turn off the Independents, libertarians and undecideds. I'm a small l libertarian and the thought already turns me off. If you are a conservative trying to pretend to be for liberty then that's another story but seeing as Rand is diametrically opposed to some of McConnell's voting record...where is the compromise going to be?
Voluntary Man
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,519
I'm sorry, did i miss some late-life conversion by Mitchy?
did i miss the Bentone's incompetency?
did i miss that Ron was blackmailed by the neocon machine?
what did i miss?
did i miss the Bentone's incompetency?
did i miss that Ron was blackmailed by the neocon machine?
what did i miss?
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
- Messages
- 40,021
I need more information. Please provide an email address or website for this Indy Party of which you speak.
What are their positions?
Who are their candidates?
How many ballots are they on?
When is their convention?
You can't have it both ways. If the establishment is as invincibly omnipotent as you claim, then your mythical "Indy Party" is every bit as doomed to abysmal failure as the rest of us are.
fr33
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2012
- Messages
- 9,471
You've missed Rand standing up to the police state apparatus, standing up against foreign aid, and many other things apparently.
Similar threads
