Rand Paul: An Idea Whose Time Has Come

[Aratus]

duckies, high irony is that gen'l washington saw the birth of our two great political parties
right inside his cabinet on day one when both mr. hamilton and mr. jefferson had bright ideas.
we are almost 225 years later, and we as a nation are after the Federalist and the Anti-Federalist
papers. the tight trim sleek stream~lined ship of state most magnifficent that the General was
the C-I-C to experianced transformative change all thru the 20th century. keep this in mind.

 

[nobody's_hero]

But not so ironic, is, as I recall, that Hamilton got shot in some duel (although admittedly I was not a fan of his central bank).

It is force.

 

[nutroll]

the LaRouche circles of Tarpley and now JBS Griffin are ENDORSING this? After they "predicted" the liberty movement would sell out to Romney ? Obviously you must think about this. Their version of economics is the same version of economics supported by Romney, Obama, FDR etc... What would the point have been but to simultaneously stop the outflux of membership from the republican party and get the liberty movement back on course? How else did u think they would deal with Ron Pauls movement but try to redirect the "sheep" back into the fold. Rand is not your trojan, he is their's.

 

[jmdrake]

the LaRouche circles of Tarpley and Griffin are ENDORSING this? After they "predicted" the liberty movement would sell out to Romney ? Obviously you must think about this. Their version of economics is the same version of economics supported by Romney, Obama, FDR etc... What would the point have been but to simultaneously stop the outflux of membership from the republican party and get the liberty movement back on course? How else did u think they would deal with Ron Pauls movement but try to redirect teh "sheep" back into the fold. Rand is not your trojan, he is their's.

I'm not sure why you're putting LaRouche, Tarpley and Griffin in the same circle. LaRouche and Tarpley are socialists. Griffin believes in free market capitalism. And the video by Griffin came out in 2008, long before the current turn of events.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

But not so ironic, is, as I recall, that Hamilton got shot in some duel

Totally deserved it.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, a very well-thought-out position. I trust Rand, but could he be corrupted by power? Yes. Is his path perilous, as jmdrake says? Yes. Can we know whether he's duping the mainstream or is really mainstream? No. We'll just keep fighting for liberty, and hopefully Rand will win the Presidency and turn out to be genuine, because that would be unbelievably awesome.

One good thing to consider: one lesson of the last 8 years is that it turns out only Ron Paul supporters are at all interested in the voting records of candidates. The neocons/teocons don't care at all. Not at all. So Rand does not have to compromise a whole lot as far as his actual votes in the Senate go, other than a very few crucial "litmus test" votes like the Iran sanctions thing. He can continue voting against everything, and even proposing anti-drone-surveillance bills, pro-hemp-legalization bills, etc.... which is exactly what he's doing. He just has to be mealy-mouthed in his public statements (like this endorsement thing), how he talks in interviews, etc. Because that is all the senile elderly GOPers care about. They do not care about his voting record at all. So he can continue to have a genuinely libertarian voting record to reassure us, while talking exactly like a neocon, which will frustrate us but that's the game. He's talking the neocon talk, while walking the libertarian walk.

As I recall, the RP supporters in Louisiana who got their fingers broken, their ribs and hib bruised, were not exactly young.

So, cut it out with your ageism.

 

[jmdrake]

As I recall, the RP supporters in Louisiana who got their fingers broken, their ribs and hib bruised, were not exactly young.

So, cut it out with your ageism.

Yeah. That and Ron is a senior citizen himself. The sad fact is that Ron's primary medium (the internet) isn't the main media most seniors read/watch.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

As I recall, the RP supporters in Louisiana who got their fingers broken, their ribs and hib bruised, were not exactly young.

That is because, of course, the grassroots in Louisiana is smart and cunning and so they voted two of their oldest and most venerable cohorts to be the leadership. Look around the room. Are the other RP supporters old? No, they are obviously young. As is always the case.

So, cut it out with your ageism.

Nah, I don't think I will. Demographics don't lie. The old people stink. Young people mostly stink too, but in this particular instance of: the only young people who participate in GOP primaries and caucuses, they most assuredly do not stink. They are Ron Paul supporters. And thus, they totally rule.

Stay strong, young people! Keep ruling! The old will keel over, and then we will win!!!

P.S.: And even in the case of the generally stinking and Obama-supporting general population of young people, at least they are against the wars! At least they are not manic, war-mongering, torture-loving, evil freaks like virtually every person in the Republican Party you will ever meet who is over the age of 60. And for that, I thank them.

 

[Aratus]

folks, we 'to be' senior citizens are seeing the GOP polarized between henry cabot lodge junior and senator barry goldwater like as if this is 1964!!!
this divide in the GOP began more properly with teddy roosevelt and his bullmoose party back in 1912 & we do know where dr. ron stands on this!

 

[libertyvidz]

People assume that Rand must be a true liberty believer because of who his father is, but for all we know, he might be a statist at heart, with a thick layer of liberty paint layered on from Ron Paul's influences in his life. It can go either way.

For the record, we can't be 100% certain that Ron is a true liberty believer. All we have is his voting record. Rand Paul has a stellar voting record as well. Some people criticize Ron for pushing for pork then voting against it. People criticize Rand for supporting Iran sanctions in theory even though he almost killed them in practice, because he ultimately voted for a bill that was going to pass anyway. In principle Rand's endorsement of Romney is similar to Ron's endorsement of Ken Buck. Sure Romney is much worse than Buck, but neither were going on foreign policy. (And I know technically Ron didn't endorse Buck, but the C4L sure did and it was done with Ron's knowledge and acquiescence).

That, and according to the Griffin Leninist strategy, it doesn't even matter how much of a candidate's core ideology is shown to the public. You could campaign as a socialist warmonger, and the only thing that matters is that you get to power. In that regard, for all we know, Romney is actually on our side, and he's been on our side the entire time. We just don't know, but obviously we don't see anyone saying we should throw our support behind him.

Has Romney racked up any kind of governing record anywhere close to Rand's? It's great to have politicians who speak and act as liberty candidates. Rand speaks like a neocon but votes and acts like a liberty candidate. Romney votes, speaks and acts like a liberal neocon.

If you really want to support the Griffin strategy, hold on very tightly to your principles, and either run as a Leninist yourself, or convince other strongly principled people to run as a Leninist. The Griffin strategy in fact can only work if we hold very strongly to our principles, so by publicly expressing your support for compromises, you dilute the core ideologies of the movement and in fact make such a strategy less likely to succeed.

Nothing is without risk. That said you simply have to ask yourself what's most important, symbolic gestures or actual governance?