Rand is Getting Skewered Over "Moral Crisis" Comments

[whoisjohngalt]

I don't particularly want to paste or link to any of the hit pieces and I'm not sure how to post the video link from my phone, but it's getting quite a bit of media attention and I've seen no mention of it here.

It sounds very much like Rand is doing some hardcore pandering to Evangelicals. In the video he seems clearly to say that the government has a role in defining marriage.

Even if what he was saying was consistent with the libertarian position; this looks awful to Independents and Millenials. I'm not going to withdraw my support over this, but my support is becoming increasingly tepid. He may still have my vote but he's losing my money and my time with stunts like this. Am I the minority?

 

[Badger Paul]

No I think you're in the majority, a growing majority.

It's obvious Rand is going to be just as conservative as everyone else is in the GOP field. Unfortunatley, what he doesn't understand, is he's going to have to spend the bulk of his time explaining his new positions in comparison to his old positions. "Rand later clarified..." is going to be theme of his campaign and nothing else. That's not how you would ideally run for President. This is why he should skip 2016. By being forced to be more conservative than he probably is, he basically being suck into the Right-wing maw rather than staking out a strong position for himself and what he believes in. He could probabaly do this better if the GOP loses in 2016 and turns in resigned defeat to Rand as their only hope. Instead he's going to join 20 other people on one stage all saying how more conservative they are than the other fellow. It's going to be ridiculous and Rand is only going to make himself look ridiculous in the process, not Presidential.

 

[JohnGalt1225]

Eh it sounds like what he's been saying all along. He's never hidden the fact that he doesn't believe in gay marriage but that he doesn't find it is the government's job to be involved. This hasn't stopped the media from pretending he's changed his position on this issue as well as defense spending. I already see the media's strategy.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Eh it sounds like what he's been saying all along. He's never hidden the fact that he doesn't believe in gay marriage but that he doesn't find it is the government's job to be involved. This hasn't stopped the media from pretending he's changed his position on this issue as well as defense spending. I already see the media's strategy.

Did you see the video? Even if you try to twist the phrasing and examine it away, he seems to be saying that the Government has a place of involvement regarding marriage.

The damage has been done.

 

[supermario21]

I think some of it arises from the quotes the media uses. On Friday I read something where he told evangelicals that they shouldn't look toward the federal government to solve their problems. That basically signs like a libertarian position. I'm not a libertine libertarian so I agree with the moral crisis comments 100%. I don't think Rand will support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. You know that will be a litmus test in 2016 as Cruz and Huckabee (perhaps Rubio as well) all support that, even now.

 

[Valli6]

Video

"The moral crisis we have in our country, there is a role for us trying to figure out a thing like marriage"
…..
“There’s also a moral crisis that allows people to think there would be some sort of other marriage.”
….
"The First Amendment says keep government out of religion, not religion out of government.”

(Copied these quotes straight from the dailybeast article.)

 

[supermario21]

After watching the video, I'm trying to see what is so controversial.

 

[William Tell]

I get a kick out of seeing JohnGalt1225 answer a question posed by whoisjohngalt!

 

[JohnGalt1225]

All he seems to be saying is that religious people should try to change the hearts and minds of their fellow countrymen. He explicitly told them twice to not look to Washington to solve their issues and that you can't change people's minds through legislation but rather through "revival" and "renewal."

 

[acptulsa]

After watching the video, I'm trying to see what is so controversial.

All these incessant attempts to divorce Rand Paul from his father's supporters, which are obviously being organized and are increasingly strident even as each becomes more spurious than the last.

 

[Kotin]

He said nothing inconsistent in that video. this is foolish.

 

[Crashland]

In my opinion, politicians shouldn't be calling for religious revivals because whether true or not, it can give the impression that they want to use government power to bring that about. But Rand didn't say anything that is different from his existing policy position -- I believe when he is referring to "we" in this video he means us as individuals, not lawmakers. Media outlets are saying he flip flopped on this but that is just not true.

 

[acptulsa]

He said nothing inconsistent in that video. this is foolish.

That depends on how much you have to gain by stirring up a tempest in the tea party pot. Or how much the guys paying you have to gain from stirring up a tempest in the tea party pot.

 

[Krugminator2]

THAT was controversial? I mean, what?!!?! That isn't even a deviation from anything he has ever said. That isn't even anything. That is just fluff newsporn written to fill a story.

 

[JohnGalt1225]

In my opinion, politicians shouldn't be calling for religious revivals because whether true or not, it can give the impression that they want to use government power to bring that about. But Rand didn't say anything that is different from his existing policy position -- I believe when he is referring to "we" in this video he means us as individuals, not lawmakers. Media outlets are saying he flip flopped on this but that is just not true.

They are saying the same thing about defense spending which isn't really true either. I see the media's strategy of picking apart things Rand says and taking them out of context to portray him as a flip flopper.

 

[jmdrake]

Video


(Copied these quotes straight from the dailybeast article.)

Ummmm.....who is "skewering" him over this?

Edit: I see that it's only very stupid people.

hxxp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/03/28/rand-paul-gay-marriage-debate-a-moral-crisis/

Comment from a very stupid person.

Wait, I thought Rand Paul was a Libertarian!?

1) There is nothing about being a libertarian that requires one to believe homosexuality is moral. Atheist libertarian Ayn Rand thought that homosexuality is "disgusting." The only thing the libertarian philosophy requires is that you don't push your morality on others.



2) Saying something is a "moral crisis" is not the same as saying something is "morally wrong." There is a moral crisis in this country with regards to homosexuality because it is an issue who's morality is debated. Liberals might think that it shouldn't be debated because everyone should just agree with them, but they are idiots. Eventually, if current trends continue, this issue will come to a head where the line between one's personal right to do with he/she wants with his/her own body will come head to head with one's right of conscious not to endorse what someone does with his/her own body. We've already had that crisis with Obamacare with the argument over whether employers with religious convictions have to cover abortion.

3) If government ultimately has a smaller role to play then such "moral crises" will be fewer and far between.

4) Rand's position isn't at all a flip flop. He's telling Christian conservatives "Look. You need to fight the culture war on your own strength. The only role of government, as I see it, is to keep you from getting run over in the process.

I would post this as a comment on the Wapo blog, but it seems to be broken or just designed by a complete moron.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Ummmm.....who is "skewering" him over this?

"Rand Paul to Faith Leaders: 1st Amendment ‘Doesn’t Say Keep Religion out of Gov’t’"- Mediate

"RAND DITCHES FEDERALISM FOR FUNDAMENTALISM ON GAY MARRIAGE"- Daily Beast

Etc

While I know a lot of people on here dislike Reason, the commentors there are valuable in checking the pulse. I'm not sure this can be dismissed so easily.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

This wasn't even a statement about Rand's policy position.

There have been 27 articles written across the media spectrum and they all seem to be negative.

I just don't agree with the strategy of moving that hard to the right with his rhetoric to appeal to evangelicals. The same is true of his appeals to neocons. We know he can't completely win those voters but he needs to also not be unacceptable to them, but he also has to not become unacceptable to independents.

Messaging and strategy are important; not just policy. This sort of messaging will turn off a lot of the groups to which Rand appeals right now. If this is the plan, I personally don't want to fund it.

I'm not sure that's it's a coincidence that Rand's poll numbers have started to move in the wrong directions since he has started saying things that can be spun to make him look like a flip flopper.

And to pretend like the messaging hasn't changed is disingenuous. It was just last year that Rand was asked if he could see himself evolving on gay marriage and he shrugged and gave a wry smile.

 

[jmdrake]

"Rand Paul to Faith Leaders: 1st Amendment ‘Doesn’t Say Keep Religion out of Gov’t’"- Mediate

"RAND DITCHES FEDERALISM FOR FUNDAMENTALISM ON GAY MARRIAGE"- Daily Beast

Etc

While I know a lot of people on here dislike Reason, the commentors there are valuable in checking the pulse. I'm not sure this can be dismissed so easily.

I found the Daily Beast link. Olivia Nuzzia is one of the biggest straight up liars on the internet. Seriously. She translated Alex Jones saying "I don't doubt the moon landing. I believe there is far greater technology that they aren't even telling us about" to "Alex Jones denies the moon landing." In this case Rand Paul did not at all ditch federalism. Quite the opposite.

 

[jmdrake]

This wasn't even a statement about Rand's policy position.

There have been 27 articles written across the media spectrum and they all seem to be negative.

I just don't agree with the strategy of moving that hard to the right with his rhetoric to appeal to evangelicals. The same is true of his appeals to neocons. We know he can't completely win those voters but he needs to also not be unacceptable to them, but he also has to not become unacceptable to independents.

Messaging and strategy are important; not just policy. This sort of messaging will turn off a lot of the groups to which Rand appeals right now. If this is the plan, I personally don't want to fund it.

I'm not sure that's it's a coincidence that Rand's poll numbers have started to move in the wrong directions since he has started saying things that can be spun to make him look like a flip flopper.

And to pretend like the messaging hasn't changed is disingenuous. It was just last year that Rand was asked if he could see himself evolving on gay marriage and he shrugged and gave a wry smile.

How is telling religious leaders that they are going to have to fight the cultural battle outside of government a change in position?