Rand introduces bill to defund Palestinian foreign aid

Rand pales in comparison to Ron as a thinker and statesman, but he's a better politician than his father ever was. Supporting this bill insulates him from accusations that he's "anti-Israel", just like his minority voter outreach does the same for claims of racism. It's an absolutely necessary step if he wants any hope to win the Presidency. People who want strict ideological consistency must be ok with the relatively minuscule amount of support liberty minded candidates have received in recent years. For people who complain so much about the endless growth of government, they really seem allergic to any kind of political strategy that might actually work to curtail it. One of the biggest problems with the liberty movement is how many people seem satisfied to be a small ideological minority, taking potshots at the establishment instead of actually finding solutions to make things better-even just a little bit.
 
Lol ffs, someone who makes sense. I'm super pro-Israel in an Arab-Israeli conflict sense, but we need to end aid to all of them. To side with the Palestinians is a joke. Lol they condemn these terrorists for murdering frenchmen for pics of Muhammad... but Palestine executes ppl for criticizing Islam too. They're no different. Not saying I like Israel's system either, but Palestinian Sharia law is an entirely different level of savagery. Just end aid to all of them, the ppl here who blame Israel for the conflict are just boasting about their ignorance.

And the I <3 Israel cheerleader makes his appearance in the Rand Paul section of the forums. What is the topic he decides to chime in about? Israel of course!
 
Why do you suppose they oppose it? Has anyone given a reason?

As crazy and horrible as the PA is, they're in our pocket. Our money tells them to work towards peace and make concessions, while their ppl promise to kill the if they sign a peace treaty. That's the PA. We propped them up in 1993 with the Oslo Accords (but they're kindof a part of the PLO, which signed the Oslo Accords to create the PA). They're our moderate buddies that brainwash their kids to hate Jews in schools and children's shows, while executing ppl for criticizing or renouncing Islam.
 
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The problem isn't that Rand supports Israel, its that Rand supports supporting Israel with our federal government. A bill that simply eliminates foreign aide to a country would not be an example of this, a bill that eliminates foreign aide to said country because they wish to address their grievances against Israel in court, however, is.
 
People will die and children carry horrid scars for life because of vagaries of argument in regards to the subtleties of some bill or other being passed that you heatedly debate as though you were deciding on chocolate or vanilla with your all american apple pie.

You mean; business as usual. This is what has been happening since long before I was born. I don't know what you want me to do to change it. This fucking mess in the USA started with the constitution. When this nation was founded every atrocity you cite was happening and was the law from the beginning. When they finally gave up on exploiting the slaves they turned to exploiting people in other countries and have never stopped.
 
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Rand's reasoning for this bill is more annoying then the bill. As is Doug Stafford's quote defending it: "The Palestinian Authority received well over $400 million last year to peacefully interact with Israel. Sen. Rand Paul does not think American tax dollars should be used to fund an anti-Israel propaganda trial.”

Or maybe, just maybe, members of the Israeli army should at least be put on trial for war crimes. Since you know, that shit in August was a war crime.

Then he goes on to talk about how Hamas has in its charter the destruction of Israel, but ignores that the ruling party in Israel has the same type of language directed towards the Palestinians in their charter.

I hate any pandering to Israel because I hate statism. And Israel is a right-wing, authoritarian apartheid state where 40% of it's population has no rights and live under occupation. Talk about religious extremism...But I'm suppose to be okay with the son of Ron Paul pandering to racist, fascist-type scumbags because it will help him what? Become morally corrupt and win an election? Hearts and Minds. I'm with Michael Scheuer, the first thing America should dp to bluster it's national security is cut all ties with Israel.

Israel is not our ally. Israel is not a poor lamb which needs defending from the evil Palestinians in the ICC. Israel should be held accountable for it's actions like any other nation. As the US government should be for fighting a war in Iraq partly on Israel's behalf ("A Clean Break" - 1996).
 
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Supporting this bill insulates him from accusations that he's "anti-Israel", just like his minority voter outreach does the same for claims of racism.

It's an absolutely necessary step if he wants any hope to win the Presidency. People who want strict ideological consistency must be ok with the relatively minuscule amount of support liberty minded candidates have received in recent years. For people who complain so much about the endless growth of government, they really seem allergic to any kind of political strategy that might actually work to curtail it.

One of the biggest problems with the liberty movement is how many people seem satisfied to be a small ideological minority, taking potshots at the establishment instead of actually finding solutions to make things better-even just a little bit.

I see incremental steps toward limiting the size of government WAY better than an ideological dog tail chase and working towards a position of irrelevancy. Rand has got the right idea, it may rub some people the wrong way, but when Perry, Christie and Bush start swinging in the debates and Rand can throw one back with comments, ideas, suggestions and legislation he's proposed backing these ideas it'll have been worth it.

#StandWithRand
 
Rand's reasoning for this bill are more annoying then the bill. As is Doug Stafford's quote defending it: "The Palestinian Authority received well over $400 million last year to peacefully interact with Israel. Sen. Rand Paul does not think American tax dollars should be used to fund an anti-Israel propaganda trial.”

Or maybe, just maybe, members of the Israeli army should at least be put on trial for war crimes. Since you know, that shit in August was a war crime.

Then he goes on to take about how Hamas has in it's charter the destruction of Israel, but ignores that the ruling party in Israel has the same type of language directed towards the Palestinians in their charter.

I hate any pandering to Israel because I hate statism. And Israel is a right-wing, authoritarian apartheid state where 40% of it's population has no rights and live under occupation. Talk about religious extremism...But I'm suppose to be okay with the son of Ron Paul pandering to racist, fascist-type scumbags because it will help him what? Become morally corrupt and win an election? Hearts and Minds. I'm with Michael Scheuer, the first thing America should be to bluster it's national security is cut all ties with Israel.

Israel is not our ally. Israel is not a poor lamb which needs defending from the evil Palestinians in the ICC. Israel should be held accountable for it's actions like any other nation. As the US government should for fighting a war in Iraq partly on Israel's behalf ("A Clean Break" - 1996).

First of all, Israel isn't apartheid, Palestine is apartheid. Israel allows Muslims to vote, own land, say w/e they want, go to public schools, w/e. In Palestine, Jews can't live there, ppl are executed for criticizing Islam, renouncing Islam, or selling land to Jews. Hamas doesn't just call for destroying Israel in its charter, it calls for killing Jews. And no, unlike what you said, Israel's 'charter' says no such thing, you just made that up because you live in a fantasy. Israel teaches its kids "disputed territory for a future Palestinian state," while Palestine teaches its kids that it will destroy Israel, and that its okay to kill Jews, both in public schools and children's tv shows. Palestine targets civilians while using their own civilians as human shields, just so they can inflate their death count and blame Israel, and here you are eating up their propaganda.

Palestine was building tunnels to Israel for the sole purpose of transporting terrorists underneath Israel. You think its a war crime to hit those tunnels? Palestine fired 1,500 rockets from residential areas this yr alone, you think its a crime to respond? Hamas has their main HQ underneath Gaza City's main hospital, where's your outrage? Over 100 kids died building Hamas tunnels, where's your outrage? Israel has offered Palestine dozens of peace treaties, including treaties to dismantle settlements, and treaties to give back land won in wars, like in 1967, when they offered THE MAJORITY OF THEIR LAND, but the Arabs wouldn't take it. Palestine doesn't want the West Bank and Gaza, they've been offered it for over a half-century, they want to destroy Israel. Get your facts straight. Palestine realizes that the ICC is far more likely to hurt Israel than Palestine because Palestine executes dissenters as 'collaborators,' so no investigation of Palestine can take place.

Look, I'm for neutrality, but funding Palestine is a crime against humanity. They execute ppl for criticizing Islam, they're no different from the terrorists in Paris. Your entire post reveals one important principle in this conflict: You hold Muslims to lower standards. You pretend Israel and Palestine are one country just because Palestine wants to conquer Israel, thus making it apartheid that they're not the same country. Israel's Muslims have rights, Palestinians invading Israel don't have rights because the government of Palestine practices Sharia law, which includes a never-ending war against Israel for discontinuing Sharia law on land once ruled by Sharia law. That's the conflict.
 
I'm sure he would support it. Ron was for less spending and less intervention overseas. He wasn't anti Israel. This is a bill that cuts spending and reduces our involvement overseas.

http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=14027

In addition, there was a vote in 2010 or so that came up for - I believe - ending foreign aid to a country for some reason. If I remember correctly, Ron opposed it and made a statement on the floor regarding the matter, saying that while ending foreign aid is good, threatening to pull aid unless condition x is met is intervention and should be opposed.

It's not clear that Ron would support this bill. It's almost safe to say he'd oppose it.

http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=11807

Not the issue I was referencing, but more info on Ron's position:

A few months back, I wrote back-to-back weekly messages regarding globalism and isolationism. In writing those columns, I focused on the fact that our nation's interventionist foreign policy was precisely what was isolating us from other countries.

Turkey's recall of their U.S. ambassador in the wake of last week's resolution, passed in the House Foreign Affairs Committee in condemnation of Turkey, is a perfect example of what I wrote in those columns, as well as what I have been saying for years.

The House has passed similar resolutions for years, praising some foreign countries or political groups while chastising others. It is my policy to vote against resolutions of this sort whenever they have the impact of placing our country in the middle of an internal political problem of some other nation, or involving us in some regional conflict. In fact, this is almost always the specific intent of resolutions of this sort. Often, I am the only Member of Congress to vote against these resolutions.

Some have questioned these votes, arguing that they are meaningless statements of opinion. However, I have always been more skeptical, and careful, about voting for these measures. Last week's reaction by Turkey, a long term ally and NATO member, shows that Congress should be a lot more restrained in sticking our government's nose into the affairs of other nations.
 
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This has nothing to do with your fetish, so stop being a broken record repeating the same thing over and over again because you are too (mod edit) to discuss the topic at hand.

Yeah I have to agree. I think Ron Paul would vote for this bill. I'm disappointed in Rand for bringing it up though. I just feel bad for the Palestinians.
 
First of all, Israel isn't apartheid, Palestine is apartheid. Israel allows Muslims to vote, own land, say w/e they want, go to public schools, w/e. In Palestine, Jews can't live there, ppl are executed for criticizing Islam, renouncing Islam, or selling land to Jews. Hamas doesn't just call for destroying Israel in its charter, it calls for killing Jews. And no, unlike what you said, Israel's 'charter' says no such thing, you just made that up because you live in a fantasy. Israel teaches its kids "disputed territory for a future Palestinian state," while Palestine teaches its kids that it will destroy Israel, and that its okay to kill Jews, both in public schools and children's tv shows. Palestine targets civilians while using their own civilians as human shields, just so they can inflate their death count and blame Israel, and here you are eating up their propaganda.

Palestine was building tunnels to Israel for the sole purpose of transporting terrorists underneath Israel. You think its a war crime to hit those tunnels? Palestine fired 1,500 rockets from residential areas this yr alone, you think its a crime to respond? Hamas has their main HQ underneath Gaza City's main hospital, where's your outrage? Over 100 kids died building Hamas tunnels, where's your outrage? Israel has offered Palestine dozens of peace treaties, including treaties to dismantle settlements, and treaties to give back land won in wars, like in 1967, when they offered THE MAJORITY OF THEIR LAND, but the Arabs wouldn't take it. Palestine doesn't want the West Bank and Gaza, they've been offered it for over a half-century, they want to destroy Israel. Get your facts straight. Palestine realizes that the ICC is far more likely to hurt Israel than Palestine because Palestine executes dissenters as 'collaborators,' so no investigation of Palestine can take place.

Look, I'm for neutrality, but funding Palestine is a crime against humanity. They execute ppl for criticizing Islam, they're no different from the terrorists in Paris. Your entire post reveals one important principle in this conflict: You hold Muslims to lower standards. You pretend Israel and Palestine are one country just because Palestine wants to conquer Israel, thus making it apartheid that they're not the same country. Israel's Muslims have rights, Palestinians invading Israel don't have rights because the government of Palestine practices Sharia law, which includes a never-ending war against Israel for discontinuing Sharia law on land once ruled by Sharia law. That's the conflict.

I'm going to say this slowly. There is not Palestine. There is no country of Palestine in the modern day world. All that is left is an occupied plot of land. The Palestinian Authority has "authority" over the Palestinians as people. Not an actual sovereign country. What world do you live in? If Palestine was an actual place today, would Israeli settlers be able to get permission from the Israeli government to build houses in Palestine? If Gaza was part of the sovereign country of Palestine, would Israel control the air, sea, all entrances/exits and food supplies? Would the government of Israel be able to cut all power to the Palestinians in their magical country of Palestine?

There is not a conflict between two separate country. It is an occupation of Goliath over David.

EDIT: I said the ruling party of Israel's charter states there can be no Palestinian state. See below:

Likud Party Charter states:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.”
 
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http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=14027

In addition, there was a vote in 2010 or so that came up for - I believe - ending foreign aid to a country for some reason. If I remember correctly, Ron opposed it and made a statement on the floor regarding the matter, saying that while ending foreign aid is good, threatening to pull aid unless condition x is met is intervention and should be opposed.

It's not clear that Ron would support this bill. It's almost safe to say he'd oppose it.

http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=11807

Not the issue I was referencing, but more info on Ron's position:
...But funding both Israel and Palestine also puts the US in the middle of of a foreign conflict; this bill doesn't do enough to disentangle, but it does reduce the amount of spending on the particular conflict. Moreover, as I said, this is largely a political ploy to insulate Rand from criticisms-which make no mistake is a necessary step in his path to the Presidency.
 
Obama has stood up to Israel more than Rand has.

What does that say? This notion of taking over a party from within isn't going to work.
 
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