Rand explains his opposition to tariffs:

[Swordsmyth]

Yawn.

Several hundred years worth of empirical economic data says otherwise.

But the corporate welfare queens created and suckled by protectionist trade policies are grateful for your propagandistic services. Keep up the good work. Maybe Ian Fletcher will hire you one day.

Several hundred years of economic data say exactly the opposite of what you claim.

But the globalist plutocrats who use free trade to reduce all the workers of the world to slave labor and destroy small and medium sized businesses thank you for your devotion to their cult.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Only on the issue of free trade. That seems to be the one thing they all agree on, and something you think 100% of them are wrong about.

That's utter nonsense.
In the first place there are schools of economics that are against it, in the second you are appealing to authority because the facts are against you, and finally economists (especially mainstream economists) have one of the worst track records in the world.

 

[Swordsmyth]

So we're getting higher productivity at lower cost, and you think that's a bad thing.

Spoken like a globalist Neo-Feudalist.
At least you make your position clear that the impoverishment of the middle and working classes, which results in their destruction and extinction through plunging birthrates, is your goal, it would be refreshing it it weren't so disgusting.

 

[Invisible Man]

Spoken like a globalist Neo-Feudalist.
At least you make your position clear that the impoverishment of the middle and working classes, which results in their destruction and extinction through plunging birthrates, is your goal, it would be refreshing it it weren't so disgusting.

Higher productivity is the opposite of impoverishment.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Higher productivity is the opposite of impoverishment.

Not when you don't get your share of it.

You literally can't stop thinking like a .1%er.
Who is "We"? because those charts clearly show the average man is far poorer than before the mass offshoring and immigration.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The International class takes all of the profits and the average American gets all the inflation.

 

[CCTelander]

Several hundred years of economic data say exactly the opposite of what you claim.

But the globalist plutocrats who use free trade to reduce all the workers of the world to slave labor and destroy small and medium sized businesses thank you for your devotion to their cult.

No, actually, they don’t. If you’re sincere, you are sadly egregiously mistaken in your economic beliefs.

If not, well, we’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are.

In any event, except for a few fringe dwellers, this is one point upon which the overwhelming majority of economists agree, regardless of what school they’re from.

But frankly, it just isn’t worth the time or effort to attempt to counter your relentlessly obdurate economic ignorance. So go ahead and rant. Anyone who isn’t too friggin lazy to actually learn a little about the topic will see it for what it is. Anyone else doesn’t matter.

I’m done.

 

[Invisible Man]

Not when you don't get your share of it.

So get your share of it. That will be a function of what you do to contribute to that productivity. People in America today are getting more stuff in exchange for fewer hours worked than in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvuHREm5jg

 

[Invisible Man]

Look what happened to Hong Kong throughout the 20th century. They became incredibly wealthy on this tiny strip of land with no natural resources all because of free markets and relatively unfettered trade.

 

[Swordsmyth]

So get your share of it. That will be a function of what you do to contribute to that productivity. People in America today are getting more stuff in exchange for fewer hours worked than in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvuHREm5jg

The charts literally show that American workers increased productivity and didn't get increased compensation for it.
They also show that they get less for their hours of work than before, I'm sure you can point to garbage like the Fed uses to calculate inflation using underwear and computers that are assumed to be 20 times as valuable because they can perform calculations 20 times as fast (but don't actually benefit you all that much more than older computers aside from games looking prettier), but the fact is that all the necessities of life like housing and anything that would allow you to bootstrap yourself up the economic ladder are further and further out of reach for the average man.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Look what happened to Hong Kong throughout the 20th century. They became incredibly wealthy on this tiny strip of land with no natural resources all because of free markets and relatively unfettered trade.

Hong Kong was a tiny city state with a low population and few resources, being an international trade hub was its only option.
But you can't provide wealth for a Continental sized country with far more inland than coast and a huge population by being a trade hub or a service economy.

America became wealthy and developed the largest middle class in history using tariffs, it has become weak and lost its independence while driving its middle class into the poor and the poor into the dirt since adopting free trade.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Notice how none of the free trade cultists will engage with the facts posted in the charts, they just keep spouting dogma and appealing to authority.

 

[Invisible Man]

The charts literally show that American workers increased productivity and didn't get increased compensation for it.

What do you mean "compensation"? You mean dollars? The stuff that was produced that they buy with those dollars is the true compensation. The changing values of dollars per item isn't what matters. They now work fewer hours to get more stuff. That isn't less compensation, it's more.

 

[Invisible Man]

Hong Kong was a tiny city state with a low population and few resources, being an international trade hub was its only option.

Exactly.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Exactly.

And you deliberately edited out the part that shows why it's such a stupid comparison, you are literally comparing a mouse to a lion and telling the lion that it can get fat on the same diet as the mouse.

 

[Swordsmyth]

What do you mean "compensation"? You mean dollars? The stuff that was produced that they buy with those dollars is the true compensation. The changing values of dollars per item isn't what matters. They now work fewer hours to get more stuff. That isn't less compensation, it's more.

I mean either one, the charts show they can't buy as much and have to work more hours to get the same stuff.

And you again edited out the part where I showed you were wrong and being deceptive like the Fed and how it calculates inflation.

 

[CCTelander]

Notice how none of the free trade cultists will engage with the facts posted in the charts, they just keep spouting dogma and appealing to authority.

What I notice is you posting a bunch of disjointed data, that shows circumstances but doesn't "prove" a damn thing, then apply the usual post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning and declare "See! Free trade is responsible for all the economic evils in the world! My faulty reasoning proves it!"

Give it a freakin' rest.

And now I really am done.

What utter nonsense.

 

[TheTexan]

But frankly, it just isn’t worth the time or effort to attempt to counter your relentlessly obdurate economic ignorance. So go ahead and rant. Anyone who isn’t too friggin lazy to actually learn a little about the topic will see it for what it is. Anyone else doesn’t matter.

I’m done.

Done doing what? Making snarky quips and reciting cliches?

I don't think I've ever seen you try to make a genuine counterargument in the context of tariffs.

If that's all you're gonna do, then ya, please stay "done".

 

[TheTexan]

Notice how none of the free trade cultists will engage with the facts posted in the charts, they just keep spouting dogma and appealing to authority.

And I'm still awaiting a logical rebuttal of the scenario I linked earlier.

 

[CCTelander]

Done doing what? Making snarky quips and reciting cliches?

I don't think I've ever seen you try to make a genuine counterargument in the context of tariffs.

If that's all you're gonna do, then ya, please stay "done".

Oh fuck right the fuck off, k?

I posted a ton of real life actual data proving beyond any reasonable doubt the economic harm caused by tariffs and you and Swordy just dismissed it. Then you turned around and made up a hypothetical, proceeded to “analyze” it in a near complete vacuum, ignoring any other possible factors and their effects, and declared that you “proved” that free trade was harmful. Oh, you also posted a bunch of shit you glommed from some AI tool and pretended that that settled it. You yourself admitted that you’re “lazy as fuck” (your words, not mine) so that kind of superficial “research” and “analysis” isn’t surprising, but you really can’t expect anyone who actually bothered to learn at least something about the topic to take it seriously.

So yeah, fuck right the fuck off Tex.

Or don’t.

Frankly I don’t give a shit one way or the other.

Have a nice day.