Rand doesn't stand

People are just looking for something to critique Rand on. He opposed it because it would have extended the Patriot Act until 2017; not because he's some sort of Neo-Con disguised in a toupee.
 
politico.com makes it their job to be disappointed with anything that any Dr. Paul does.
 
There was no point in letting it be debated with Reid in charge. At the same time I am hopeful that Randal has assurances from Mitchie that this will come up again when he is leader.
 
specsaregood said:
There was no point in letting it be debated with Reid in charge. At the same time I am hopeful that Randal has assurances from Mitchie that this will come up again when he is leader.
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I was under the impression that Reid was allowing amendments, why didn't Paul then offer up some Amendments? and if they didn't pass then he could have voted no on it?
 
cero said:
I was under the impression that Reid was allowing amendments, why didn't Paul then offer up some Amendments? and if they didn't pass then he could have voted no on it?
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He answers that question in the article:
Last night, I stood on principle by opposing a bill that that included a provision reauthorizing elements of the Patriot Act that violate the Bill of Rights. I have always been steadfast against the Patriot Act and I will continue to do all I can to prevent its extension.”
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Evidently he thought this was the best way to prevent/put off reauthorization of the patriot act. I certainly don't know more than him to argue the point.
 
RonPaulFanInGA said:
'Libertarians disappointed in Rand Paul' mainstream media article #52,102. I tire of these.
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Though it was kind of funny, at first, that the media had the cheek to speak for us. Especially since they never actually talk with us.
 
There is a rumor that this was a disguised favor to Mitch so that the bill would not pass and weaken the NSA. Rand helps defeat the bill and still gets to look like a champion of civil liberties. Mitch's NSA overlords are happy. Seems plausible.
 
anaconda said:
There is a rumor that this was a disguised favor to Mitch so that the bill would not pass and weaken the NSA. Rand helps defeat the bill and still gets to look like a champion of civil liberties. Mitch's NSA overlords are happy. Seems plausible.
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Source for this "rumor" or are we just generating our own rumors now? How is it "reining" in the NSA when the idiots vote to extend the Patriot Act? That's like passing a bill that says Obama has to come to Congress before making any military actions then extending the AUMF. I don't even understand why there people on these forums who think this bill was somehow a good thing? They put a check on the NSA then at the same time, extend the Patriot Act. Hello?
 
twomp said:
I don't even understand why there people on these forums who think this bill was somehow a good thing? They put a check on the NSA then at the same time, extend the Patriot Act. Hello?
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All of Washington, D.C. is built on lesser evils and short-term thinking.

And the current climate leaves only two choices--be obviously and unimpeachably principled but clearly useless like Ron Paul, or effective but therefore not above suspicion like Rand Paul.

And sites like politico.com will play both sides of that coin 'till doomsday without ever admitting that it's a contradiction. Heads I win, tails you lose has always been their favorite game.
 
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acptulsa said:
All of Washington, D.C. is built on lesser evils and short-term thinking.

And the current climate leaves only two choices--be obviously and unimpeachably principled but clearly useless like Ron Paul, or effective but therefore not above suspicion like Rand Paul.

And sites like politico.com will play both sides of that coin 'till doomsday without ever admitting that it's a contradiction.
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If the contradiction were somehow balanced but this bill isn't. It's a slap on the wrist while extending their true power (Patriot ACT). It like how the banks ripped off the country to the tune of Billions and then were fined millions. And everyone rejoices that the banks finally "got what they deserved." The exact same thing is happening with this bill.
 
a post from politico that i found worth pasting

"empiresentry George Kaplan • 3 hours ago
It took me four clicks to get the FACTS on this. Politico: you should be doing your job. Do you need a new researcher?

1. The house bill was passed H.R.3361 - USA FREEDOM Act
2. Sent to Senate - S. 2685
3. It was read on floor 7/29 and 7/30
4. Senate Dims make radical changes to bill and place it under cloture 11/12. NO one allowed to debate, discuss or make changes.
5. The vote on 11/18 was a vote whether it should continued clotured.
.Here is the record: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2685/all-actions-with-amendments
.
-----Now, go to the link below, pull up H.R. 3361 and on the right, compare it to the Democrat version in S.2685 (third box down)
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3361/text
.
---------All changes the Dims made are marked in red.----------
The dims took out the requirement of having to provide PROOF to be researching a persons data,
took out international requirement,
took out all protections,
took out all reporting requirements to Congress and oversight.
.
The Dem senate bill is nothing more than a repeat of what we already have in place.
.
Rand is correct. This vote wasn't the bill. The vote was about putting a cloture on it and then voting and the dim changes.
Next time report facts and truth.
12 • Reply•Share › "
 
jtstellar said:
a post from politico that i found worth pasting

"empiresentry George Kaplan • 3 hours ago
It took me four clicks to get the FACTS on this. Politico: you should be doing your job. Do you need a new researcher?

1. The house bill was passed H.R.3361 - USA FREEDOM Act
2. Sent to Senate - S. 2685
3. It was read on floor 7/29 and 7/30
4. Senate Dims make radical changes to bill and place it under cloture 11/12. NO one allowed to debate, discuss or make changes.
5. The vote on 11/18 was a vote whether it should continued clotured.
.Here is the record: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2685/all-actions-with-amendments
.
-----Now, go to the link below, pull up H.R. 3361 and on the right, compare it to the Democrat version in S.2685 (third box down)
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3361/text
.
---------All changes the Dims made are marked in red.----------
The dims took out the requirement of having to provide PROOF to be researching a persons data,
took out international requirement,
took out all protections,
took out all reporting requirements to Congress and oversight.
.
The Dem senate bill is nothing more than a repeat of what we already have in place.
.
Rand is correct. This vote wasn't the bill. The vote was about putting a cloture on it and then voting and the dim changes.
Next time report facts and truth.
12 • Reply•Share › "
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And after it passes cloture, what does it need to pass? 50%? 60%?

It seems like in the past, the cloture vote was the important vote.
 
twomp said:
Source for this "rumor" or are we just generating our own rumors now? How is it "reining" in the NSA when the idiots vote to extend the Patriot Act? That's like passing a bill that says Obama has to come to Congress before making any military actions then extending the AUMF. I don't even understand why there people on these forums who think this bill was somehow a good thing? They put a check on the NSA then at the same time, extend the Patriot Act. Hello?
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Republicans will bring forward extensions of the PATRIOT Act and current NSA practices when they take over the Senate, and both will pass easily. This was the only shot at getting any sort of reform, weak or strong.

This is both an indictment on Rand Paul's approach as well as an illumination as to the hopelessness of changing the system from within.
 
Feeding the Abscess said:
Republicans will bring forward extensions of the PATRIOT Act and current NSA practices when they take over the Senate, and both will pass easily. This was the only shot at getting any sort of reform, weak or strong.

This is both an indictment on Rand Paul's approach as well as an illumination as to the hopelessness of changing the system from within.
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And yet, if you look at the information jstellar posted above, it appears that the GOP-controlled house passed a much better version of the bill.
 
specsaregood said:
And yet, if you look at the information jstellar posted above, it appears that the GOP-controlled house passed a much better version of the bill.
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I don't think the comment from that person in the Politico article is correct. Everything I've read is that the bill passed by the house was extremely weak, and Leahy's bill was stronger. All of the hardcore neocons in the house voted for the house bill. All of the hardcore neocons in the Senate voted against the Senate bill. That tells you something.
 
Correct decision! Rand and fellow travelers in the republican senate can easily get something similar passed later together with the democrats, without a extension of the so-called "Patriot"-act, which every American should be ashamed of. The closer to the expiry date, the more the establishment hawks will offer. He can also filibuster the extension if it comes to that. I think this is a 50/50 issue with republicans, but a potentially a huge win with democrats and independents.
 
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