Rand at zero in new Florida and Georgia polls

One reason why the conservative base has been de-energized and stayed home in recent Presidential cycles is that they perceive the only thing the party REALLY cares about or stands for at this point, is invading and bombing more countries. As I have said before: no Republican is going to win back the White House until they concede the Iraq war was wrong.

Rand holds that view and can still be that Republican, but he has to appear to challenge establishment frameworks, not rhetorically finesse or embrace them.

He held a controversial 13 hour filibuster to denounce the terrible drone program.
He almost single-handedly destroyed the Patriot Act as it existed pre-2015 via controversial filibuster.
He led the bipartisan coalition to not invade in Syria when it seemed all but pre-ordained.
He said that fellow Republicans were in large part to blame for the rise of ISIS.
Hell, he CALLED the rise of ISIS!

What more does he have to do!?

Rand and his team have played a brilliant game so far, and I have absolutely no clue why his polling should be so low.
 
He held a controversial 13 hour filibuster to denounce the terrible drone program.
He almost single-handedly destroyed the Patriot Act as it existed pre-2015 via controversial filibuster.
He led the bipartisan coalition to not invade in Syria when it seemed all but pre-ordained.
He said that fellow Republicans were in large part to blame for the rise of ISIS.
Hell, he CALLED the rise of ISIS!

What more does he have to do!?

Rand and his team have played a brilliant game so far, and I have absolutely no clue why his polling should be so low.

people are not personally effected so they don't care
 
He held a controversial 13 hour filibuster to denounce the terrible drone program.
He almost single-handedly destroyed the Patriot Act as it existed pre-2015 via controversial filibuster.
He led the bipartisan coalition to not invade in Syria when it seemed all but pre-ordained.
He said that fellow Republicans were in large part to blame for the rise of ISIS.
Hell, he CALLED the rise of ISIS!

What more does he have to do!?

Rand and his team have played a brilliant game so far, and I have absolutely no clue why his polling should be so low.

"the people" have a VERY short memory...
 
Positions are only part of the mix, and Trump is doing well for the most part without even specifying what he would do, how he would do it, or why we should trust his current views given his history. Rand is struggling because while his rhetorical approach opened a dialogue and reduced attacks on him, it did not change the framework on how those issues are approached by the mainstream. Indeed, Rand has not even tried to shake that framework, just finesse his way around it.

Trump has gotten an unfair amount of media coverage, to be sure, but he has also changed frameworks, be it on immigration, trade, resisting many forms of PC pressure and so forth. Despite using token hawkish rhetoric, he has said the key thing about Iraq---that the original invasion was a mistake, and that Bush Inc bears responsibility for it, not the Democrats---that changes the game, as it accepts the verdict of public opinion on that subject, and does not lock the GOP into a mindset of further global meddling going forward.

One reason why the conservative base has been de-energized and stayed home in recent Presidential cycles is that they perceive the only thing the party REALLY cares about or stands for at this point, is invading and bombing more countries, following the 2003 model. This perception is shared by independents, who have not been attracted to GOP contenders for the same reason. As I have said before: no Republican is going to win back the White House until they at least concede the Iraq war was wrong.

Rand holds that view and can still be that Republican, but he has to appear to challenge establishment frameworks, not rhetorically finesse or embrace them. He should triangulate the Trump phenomenon instead of attack it, and by doing so inherit its anti-establishment momentum. By doing so Rand would signal to the party base factions, as Trump has signaled by emphasizing cultural policy, that the GOP is not a foreign policy party, to the exclusion of (or caving on) everything else.

Token hawkish? What are you smoking? His method in Iraq to fight Isus is to send troops in to seize the oilfields. Before he ever had to appease hawks he was for preemptive war in N Korea. If you think the Iraq war was bad wait until he kicks THAT hornets nest. Read up on the Korean war.
 
He held a controversial 13 hour filibuster to denounce the terrible drone program.
He almost single-handedly destroyed the Patriot Act as it existed pre-2015 via controversial filibuster.
He led the bipartisan coalition to not invade in Syria when it seemed all but pre-ordained.
He said that fellow Republicans were in large part to blame for the rise of ISIS.
Hell, he CALLED the rise of ISIS!

What more does he have to do!?

Rand and his team have played a brilliant game so far, and I have absolutely no clue why his polling should be so low.

Those particular wins speak to Rand's positions, whereas I was speaking to confronting the usual framework (emotion, attitude, priority) by which issues are approached. Policy discussions remain firmly interventionist despite the drone filibuster, firmly pro omni-surveillance despite the Patriot Act filibuster, etc. Trump is winning based on changing the mainstream conversation, while Rand has not been doing so (so far). An example of the difference:

Position: Immigration is a way to politically attract Latinos, so we need to pass immigration reform, with a pathway for citizenship provided for current undocumented immigrants. [Emotion/attitude---it's not a big deal, prioritize outreach to minorities, so when are we giving them amnesty already?]

Counter position: Immigration must be dealt with, immigration reform or "a pathway to citizenship" is code for amnesty, and under no condition should we grant illegals amnesty. [The counter view may or may not have emotions attached to it.]

New Framework: Illegals are bringing us crime and anchor babies, Mexico is playing us for fools, so they need to pay for the border wall or security measures we put up. [Emotion/attitude---it IS a big deal, we should be angry about being exploited, prioritize security first, so when are we going to deport them already?]
 
Token hawkish? What are you smoking? His method in Iraq to fight Isus is to send troops in to seize the oilfields. Before he ever had to appease hawks he was for preemptive war in N Korea. If you think the Iraq war was bad wait until he kicks THAT hornets nest. Read up on the Korean war.

Trump's hawkish pronouncements are random and unfocused. The other interventionist candidates are in systematic agreement about continuing the exact pattern of meddling in the Mideast set by Iraq, from Syria to Iran et al, along with demonizing or isolating Russia and China. None of them could be imagined defying Israel on anything, or questioning the Iraq invasion, as Trump and Rand have.
 
Trump's hawkish pronouncements are random and unfocused. The other interventionist candidates are in systematic agreement about continuing the exact pattern of meddling in the Mideast set by Iraq, from Syria to Iran et al, along with demonizing or isolating Russia and China. None of them could be imagined defying Israel on anything, or questioning the Iraq invasion, as Trump and Rand have.
What the hell do you think Trump is saying about China? he is demonizing the fucking hell out of them. The only reason he was against the Iraq war is because it wasn't MAKING money for the US. Boy you really are sucking the trump syrup.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/when-it-comes-to-jewish-ties-no-gop-candidate-trumps-trump/
 

Rubio at 2% in Georgia and 6 % in his home state of Florida . . . that is really bad.

Rand does not need to change or have knee-jerk reactions imo
It was a very successful August break for him . . . eye surgery and KY caucus win.

CNN debate v. Trump on foreign policy . . . I hope Rand makes Trump's head spin like a top.
 
i feel the next debate will set rand either in the top 3 or he will be gone. i just dont trust these news polls and all involved. rand went from a staggering #1 spot before the first debate to almost dead last. kinda scary.
 
What the hell do you think Trump is saying about China? he is demonizing the fucking hell out of them. The only reason he was against the Iraq war is because it wasn't MAKING money for the US. Boy you really are sucking the trump syrup.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/when-it-comes-to-jewish-ties-no-gop-candidate-trumps-trump/

Trump is demonizing China on trade, not on foreign policy. And no one was even talking about challenging China on the trade front until Trump raised the issue, that's another example of changing the framework, not conforming to it. And he was demonizing them despite his business ties to them, which by implication suggests Trump is also able to rebuff Israel, despite his ties to them.
 
Trump is demonizing China on trade, not on foreign policy. And no one was even talking about challenging China on the trade front until Trump raised the issue, that's another example of changing the framework, not conforming to it. And he was demonizing them despite his business ties to them, which by implication suggests Trump is also able to rebuff Israel, despite his ties to them.
Trade is what starts wars. There is almost no other reason. Wars are about money. You need to do a little reading of history.
 
i feel the next debate will set rand either in the top 3 or he will be gone. i just dont trust these news polls and all involved. rand went from a staggering #1 spot before the first debate to almost dead last. kinda scary.
its going to be huge. I just hope he has a good performance
 
The feds an intellectual issue and 95% of voters vote on emotion. He needs to get an emotional connection and not sound like a college professor. He has to sell himself and if you know about sales you know you need to create an emotional connection to the item your selling.
this, this, this times a thousand. and speak with authority and in sound bites. do not go in lengthy discussions where you say " i think" "it's possible that", etc. speak from the heart but shorten up your positions. everything should be an elevator speech.
 
He really hasn't spent very much time in either state lately. And there is some kind of statist move going on in FL lately. I agree that he needs to focus on fiscal sanity for awhile...maybe for the rest of the year. I saw where Huckabee swept a straw poll of 100 Tax Republicans in Fl...Cruz just toured the Southern states. Right now I think it's more about organizing your base...Rand went West and Cruz went through the South.
 
He needs glossy cards with pictures of states he is beating Hillary in OH, PA, Iowa, CO, and NH. He needs to say he is number one with independents/youth in a general election and has the best average. That right there will double his numbers, he needs to talk big about running in a general election and bringing the qualities the other candidates have but being able to add more to beat the democrats. Say he can go more places. This needs to be printable with the polls having citations in tiny print so people can see he is legit.

They need to motivate volunteers and get them going to GOP meetings handing out flyers.

Yes, please...
 
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