Rand at zero in new Florida and Georgia polls

[rich34]

Seems that former Ron supporters would rather vote for Trump, Cruz, or Carson, or not vote at all, than vote for Rand. Truly disappointing. And frustrating, because any major moves that Rand makes at this point would be painted as just acts of desperation. But as long as Rand has money he'll still be in the race, and these races can turn on a dime, so don't give up

I don't believe that. Ron Paul supporters were considered the most knowledgable of all the candidates. Unless they've all lost their minds I call bullshit and will continue to do so. So Rand didn't do so well in one debate they're all going to abandon him for that? Sounds like the mainstream narative is working at shutting down Ron Paul's grassroots. I think it's time Ron gets on the campaign trail and calls out their bullshit. Even the MSM couldn't resist putting Ron and Rand back on tv if that happened.

 

[LatinsforPaul]

I don't believe that. Ron Paul supporters were considered the most knowledgable of all the candidates. Unless they've all lost their minds I call bullshit and will continue to do so. So Rand didn't do so well in one debate they're all going to abandon him for that? Sounds like the mainstream narative is working at shutting down Ron Paul's grassroots. I think it's time Ron gets on the campaign trail and calls out their bullshit. Even the MSM couldn't resist putting Ron and Rand back on tv if that happened.

It will happen in January, patience.

 

[PaleoPaul]

I don't believe that. Ron Paul supporters were considered the most knowledgable of all the candidates. Unless they've all lost their minds I call bullshit and will continue to do so. So Rand didn't do so well in one debate they're all going to abandon him for that? Sounds like the mainstream narative is working at shutting down Ron Paul's grassroots. I think it's time Ron gets on the campaign trail and calls out their bullshit. Even the MSM couldn't resist putting Ron and Rand back on tv if that happened.

All you need to do is witness what's been going on with this forum for the past two months. Before, the most of us were of one mind and of one accord. While there were a few Ron supporters that were adamantly against a Rand candidacy, they still respected the fact that he was running. However, then comes Donald Trump, and all of a sudden this forum feels like a carbon copy of Stormfront or VDare or American Renaissance. They're all supporting Trump just because he wants to deport all the brown people, nevermind the fact that his positions on war, civil liberties, and certain fiscal issues are very anti-liberty.

 

[rich34]

Seems that former Ron supporters would rather vote for Trump, Cruz, or Carson, or not vote at all, than vote for Rand. Truly disappointing. And frustrating, because any major moves that Rand makes at this point would be painted as just acts of desperation. But as long as Rand has money he'll still be in the race, and these races can turn on a dime, so don't give up

I don't believe that. Ron Paul supporters were considered the most knowledgable of all the candidates. Unless they've all lost their minds I call bullshit and will continue to do so. So Rand didn't do so well in one debate they're all going to abandon him for that? Sounds like the mainstream narative is working at shutting down Ron Paul's grassroots. I think it's time Ron gets on the campaign trail and calls out their bullshit. Even the MSM couldn't resist putting Ron and Rand back on tv if that happened.

 

[DisneyFan]

OK, I'll put this as politely as I can.

If you were a Rand Paul supporter and now are backing Trump, Carson, or Fiorina, you are an effing moron.

Thank you for your time.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Rand needs to shelve the civil liberty issues for now as he's already got a major track record on them that he can point back to when needed. From now on, it has to always be fiscal conservatism so he can re-up his numbers in the GOP primary and remake a name for himself in this otherwise fraud field of conservatives, from a fiscal perspective. His team should know this by now and I'm starting to question their moves at this point. This low in the polls is unacceptable for an (or true blue) anti-establishment candidate. Also, poor mojo going into a moneybomb. Being a little bolder on immigration or reinforcing what his original position is in words that sell red meat would help as well. No Trumpers are gonna go our way unless Rand gets more bolder and lets the civil issues fall to the side for a while. They aren't concerned about privacy issues when financials and jobs are perceivingly at stake.

Well said

Of the issues GOPers care about, the only one where Rand can win is the economy; all his negatives come from his (real or perceived) positions on other issues.

As you say, he's got to drop the civil liberties stuff (not change his positions, just stop talking about it for the time being); GOPers don't care and/or see it as politically-correct coddling of minorities (i.e. the opposite of what they love Trump for doing). Likewise with immigration and foreign policy. GOPers have been whipped up into a psychotic frenzy of nationalism. In more normal times (as in a couple months when this dies down), Rand's stances shouldn't be a major liability (GOPers won't vote for Rand because of these positions [it looked like they might back in 2012/2013, but the political climate has massively changed], but they will vote for him in spite of these positions, if he's appealing enough on other issues [e.g. economics]). So, he should keep quiet as much as possible here, make little mention of immigration or foreign policy; if asked, give a quick uncontroversial answer likely to get little press, and turn the discussion to economics.

Once the wave of jingo-jango begins to fade, Rand can take the lead, if he's positioned himself correctly on economics. And if he can become the conservative alternative on the basis of his economic positions, then, later in the primary (or, God willing, the general), his positions on civil liberties, foreign policy, and immigration will become assets once again, as we get into more moderate/independent voters.

 

[TaftFan]

Rand needs to shelve the civil liberty issues for now as he's already got a major track record on them that he can point back to when needed. From now on, it has to always be fiscal conservatism so he can re-up his numbers in the GOP primary and remake a name for himself in this otherwise fraud field of conservatives, from a fiscal perspective. His team should know this by now and I'm starting to question their moves at this point. This low in the polls is unacceptable for an (or true blue) anti-establishment candidate. Also, poor mojo going into a moneybomb. Being a little bolder on immigration or reinforcing what his original position is in words that sell red meat would help as well. No Trumpers are gonna go our way unless Rand gets more bolder and lets the civil issues fall to the side for a while. They aren't concerned about privacy issues when financials and jobs are perceivingly at stake.

He could own the Federal Reserve issue if he wanted to. It is a huge part of the economy.

 

[cindy25]

issues need to be in language people understand.

example: Federal Reserve

this goes over the head of 90% of voters. but blame the Fed for why banks don't pay interest on savings accounts and why they are charging more and more for services.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

^^^agree with you both re the Fed

It's got a lot of potential as a populist fiscal conservative issue, but it's got to be approached in the right way. I was actually surprised by how much traction Ron got with it, given his tendency to talk in Austrian lingo that the vast majority definitely had never heard before. To grow the anti-Fed coalition, bring it down to Earth. Higher prices at the pump and the grocery store, screwing savers, rewarding gamblers on Wall Street, etc. The hardest part, IMO, is not so much turning people against the Fed, but turning them onto the real solution (i.e. gold, which is totally outside their experience).

 

[nobody's_hero]

Rand needs to announce an attack on ISIS, or something drastic in foreign policy. This sux guys. Even Chris Matthews said months ago Rand would win the GOP primary... and now he is at 0 percent. There must be a force working against us, bigger then we've ever seen before.

It's called stupidity.

 

[puppetmaster]

Yes it is always easy to say that Rand needs to do something and that something needs to work. Not as easy to make it reality.

except that blithering idiot trump makes it work....for now.

 

[puppetmaster]

The feds an intellectual issue and 95% of voters vote on emotion. He needs to get an emotional connection and not sound like a college professor. He has to sell himself and if you know about sales you know you need to create an emotional connection to the item your selling.

 

[cindy25]

Ron sounds more like a professor. Rand tends to talk down to people, not intentionally, but in a way that most doctors do.

any issue can be made emotional.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Rand needs to announce an attack on ISIS, or something drastic in foreign policy. [...]

Say you want to attack somebody, because saying exactly the same thing every other candidate is saying is "drastic" - but strict non-interventionism isn't ...

Why stop on an attack on ISIS? Why not drop nukes on both them and Iran?

And Russia ... and China ... and Mexico ... and the Blue States ...

Because in order for Rand to be "drastic" without being non-interventionist, he needs to go "all in" - and that means none of this namby-pamby "just ISIS and Iran" stuff ...

 

[acptulsa]

Rand should pick a VP, as Reagan did in 1976. it would get him media before the debate. someone very aggressive and media ready.

yes-Rand has no chance in FL or GA, but what winner take all state can he take?

Sure. 'Candidate occupying basement in cooked establishment polls puts cart so far before the horse he's picking a running mate he'll never need. Must be telling us he's not enough all by himself.' That'll play well.

And who cares what winner takes all state he can win? Several of those won't be winner take all next year, because the candidate has to have a simple majority to get all the delegates, and with seventeen people in the race, that won't happen. Besides, unless the dozen stooges start dropping out quick, this is going to be a brokered convention; no one is getting the nomination on the first or second ballot.

Trump and Carson are making it look easy. they are spending nothing, saying nothing, and going up and up.

It is easy for Trump and Carson. They get media 24/7. They have gotten media 24/7 every single blessed day for months. It's like doing the Tour de France on a motorcycle and not getting called a cheater. It's like allowing two of the contestants in a race up the stairs of the Gateway Arch to ride the elevator without getting disqualified.

And cooked polls like the ones you're advertising with this thread don't help. Do you really believe that Rand Paul doesn't have one single vote in either state? Did it occur to you to ask, say, Opal and Suzanimal for a second opinion on that?

But neither goes 'up and up and up'. Trump's ceiling is 30% of Republicans. He doesn't seem to be able to get one point more.

issues need to be in language people understand.

example: Federal Reserve

this goes over the head of 90% of voters. but blame the Fed for why banks don't pay interest on savings accounts and why they are charging more and more for services.

Oh, sure. That's the ticket. The Fed is why your paycheck keeps buying less every single day just as though you took a cut in pay, when the number has stayed the same. The Fed is what killed the whole middle class. Yet we should see if we can find anyone who is old enough to remember when banks paid interest on savings accounts, much less who cares about three percent.

Ron sounds more like a professor. Rand tends to talk down to people, not intentionally, but in a way that most doctors do.

any issue can be made emotional.

Yeah, because Trump never talked down to anyone in his whole life. So that must be the crux of the whole thing.

 

[CPUd]

 

[Okaloosa]

He needs glossy cards with pictures of states he is beating Hillary in OH, PA, Iowa, CO, and NH. He needs to say he is number one with independents/youth in a general election and has the best average. That right there will double his numbers, he needs to talk big about running in a general election and bringing the qualities the other candidates have but being able to add more to beat the democrats. Say he can go more places. This needs to be printable with the polls having citations in tiny print so people can see he is legit.

They need to motivate volunteers and get them going to GOP meetings handing out flyers.

 

[alucard13mm]

I agree. Civil liberties are important, but its not what voters are looking for at the moment. No one cares right now. Got to talk about what matters to most of the voters currently, even if the matter is set up by media and coincidence.

Its important to reach out to minorities, but not piss off that fragile base of gop voters that kinda like rand. Aside from potentiAlly rigged polls and some media bias; Ferguson, jesse jackson, confederate flag and etc is when rands numbers started falling.

It seems that when rand attacks someone in the debate, he usually dont get to say the last words. That is very damning. He attacks the two loud mouths, quick thinking, jerks that is christie and trump. i am sure christie and trump had rebuttals and insults rdy to use against rand. attacking jeb would be nice because jeb is kinda slow. jeb probably has something to rebuttal rand, but he would stumble it.

Anyways, he cant stay in the back of the pack forever. If there are similar poll conditions for later debates, he is fooked.

PS: cmon guys. Polls where rand is top 2 = Oh mai gawd. We doin so well! so much progress. Polls where rand does poorly = oh doesnt matter. Rigged. Biased. Too early. National polls. Pointless state.

 

[cindy25]

the polls are not intentionally biased but they do over emphasize older voters who support Trump and Carson, whereas Rand is a candidate of the young voter. but zero is still zero, and even bias might only effect 5-10%

Trump's ceiling is over 30%, he is already polling 40% in Alabama

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump's ceiling is over 30%, he is already polling 40% in Alabama

There's an old saying in Oklahoma: at least we're not Alabama!