Questions for those around in 08 and 12

If Rand doesn't win Iowa and/or New Hampshire I hope he concedes and doesn't drag it out like the 2012 campaign. The one thing I regret about 2012 is donating after New Hampshire. Ron was on the cusp of winning Iowa but then he let Santorum run away with it. We can blame the media, but the fact is Santorum ran an aggressive retail politics campaign. If I remember correctly, Ron pretty much left the state shortly before the caucus.

Fortunately, even with the stronger candidates this time, Rand has already been campaigning and has the strategy and resources necessary to win the straw poll & delegates. The base might not be as energized, but Rand will have a greater variety of supporters. If he actually does get the nomination, I think that's when you'll see all the "Ron Paul People" come back.
 
Personally, while I'm less excited about a President Rand than a President Ron, that is counterbalanced by my excitement that Rand has so much better of a chance of winning than Ron did. So in that regard, I'm excited.

I think a lot of the people who are not currently excited to fight for Rand in this election cycle, once things get moving and there's events and debates and caucuses and it's us against the rest of the GOP again, I think a lot of them will rediscover their inner politico.
 
If Rand doesn't win Iowa and/or New Hampshire I hope he concedes and doesn't drag it out like the 2012 campaign. The one thing I regret about 2012 is donating after New Hampshire. Ron was on the cusp of winning Iowa but then he let Santorum run away with it. We can blame the media, but the fact is Santorum ran an aggressive retail politics campaign. If I remember correctly, Ron pretty much left the state shortly before the caucus.

Fortunately, even with the stronger candidates this time, Rand has already been campaigning and has the strategy and resources necessary to win the straw poll & delegates. The base might not be as energized, but Rand will have a greater variety of supporters. If he actually does get the nomination, I think that's when you'll see all the "Ron Paul People" come back.

I think Rand wins both Iowa and NH. The reason Ron couldn't get over the hump in Iowa, even with the best ground game, was because he didn't have practically any religious conservatives or establishment conservatives. Rand has both of those.
 
Also, when you mix Rand's high ranking in the polls with his unconventional foreign policy views, he is going to be the one in the primaries that everyone is talking about and everyone is going after. It's going to be the Rand show in the primaries.
 
Also, when you mix Rand's high ranking in the polls with his unconventional foreign policy views, he is going to be the one in the primaries that everyone is talking about and everyone is going after. It's going to be the Rand show in the primaries.

yeah, that is what I thought also. back in 07.
by the time that I joined this site, we had our asses handed to us.

I joined both the DP and RPF's at about the same time.
to meet people for the Rally for the Republic and make plans..

we all knew that we had lost. we did it anyhow.

what were we fighting for Sola_fide?

 
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yeah, that is what I thought also. back in 07.
by the time that I joined this site, we had our asses handed to us.

I joined both the DP and RPF's at about the same time.
to meet people for the Rally for the Republic and make plans..

we all knew that we had lost. we did it anyhow.

what were we fighting for Sola_fide?

Hard to say. For everyone I'm sure it's different. I personally don't think that change will come from politics, but if Rand can slow the approach of leviathan to any degree, it would be good. I think there may be value in having Rand provide a reason that others may look into the ideas of freedom, and when they do that, they will see the sham this whole system really is. I just view Rand as a (distant) ally in a quest for freedom.
 
Hard to say. For everyone I'm sure it's different. I personally don't think that change will come from politics, but if Rand can slow the approach of leviathan to any degree, it would be good. I think there may be value in having Rand provide a reason that others may look into the ideas of freedom, and when they do that, they will see the sham this whole system really is. I just view Rand as a (distant) ally in a quest for freedom.

Liberty and Freedom are NOT the same thing.

Rand is NOT doing this to "Save his soul" and yes. that is the ONLY thing that is important to you.

I would have wrote more.. but I am being Jacked with by a
" debug script" thing.
 
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Liberty and Freedom are NOT the same thing.

Rand is NOT doing this to "Save his soul" and yes. that is the ONLY thing that is important to you.

I agree that Rand isn't doing this to "save his soul". Most people lose their soul when they seek power. But to say that other things are not important to me is not correct. For a Biblical Christian, yes, salvation is the most important issue, but freedom is also important, because the Bible teaches property and individual sovereignty.

So while salvation is the most important thing to a Biblical Christian, it is not the only thing he cares about.
 
Ron was on the cusp of winning Iowa but then he let Santorum run away with it. We can blame the media, but the fact is Santorum ran an aggressive retail politics campaign. If I remember correctly, Ron pretty much left the state shortly before the caucus.

Although I agree more could have been done in Iowa 2012, have to somewhat disagree with the idea that Ron Paul let Santorum run away with it, because Santorum had an aggressive retail politics campaign that could not be matched.

The media did have a HUGE part to play into what happened in Iowa, if you watched what had unfolded the weeks before and the critical 72 hours prior to the caucus what was in the news was massively disturbing with its wall-to-wall overwhelmingly positive reports regarding Santorum. He and his support was hardly talked about before December 2011 (the months prior) and polling didn't show he was a strong competitor to win Iowa or even place well, I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy, but I could see why after that some would have serious thoughts about what happened only because the turn around was so extreme including literally hours leading up to caucus night that it was so sad one could only laugh. Santorum literally went from a 4.0% polling in Iowa based on RCP average to a 16.3% with a final of 24.6 IN LESS THAN A MONTH!

Based on polling and voting data one has to surmise to some extent that the majority of potential voters being polled would have previously gone with Gingrich, Cain, and Bachman and decided to swing towards Santorum in the last month leading up to the caucus, the question is why? Santorum and his team may have been geniuses when it came to Iowa retail politics, but this type of turn around seems so beyond the pale to be believable. One might argue perhaps it was a mixture, the efforts locally to win over voters and groups combined with a media quick to pounce on stories to fill a news cycle that generated an unintended snowball effect with Santorum being the beneficiary, but then this again could only have been possible with the loud speaker of the media involved.

The truth is, and this is something no one especially here should doubt, the other candidates are not the only opposing force in a presidential race. Regardless of how good their retail politics are there is another entity at play that has much greater tools of influence than any candidate possibly could imagine and that is the media. Again I'm not a big conspiracy guy and I think bottom line the media's end goal is all about money and survival of their companies and industry above all, but never the less all it takes is a series of "mistakes" by the media or intentional drama reporting to drum up viewers and the next thing you know a bottom tier candidate ends up winning a caucus without actually gaining delegates with a difference of three thousand votes. The Media has as much influence (if not more) in Iowa and New Hampshire as it does in any other state in the country and people have and will continue to rely on what the talking heads are saying to "help" them determine what to think and who to vote for in the weeks, days, and hours leading up to caucuses/primaries, I really don't see how this can be refuted.

From wiki:

The Washington Times reported in November 2011 that conservatives had gone on a "carousel" of supporting different candidates against Mitt Romney, from Michele Bachmann to Rick Perry to Herman Cain to Newt Gingrich. As such, Santorum would be next on the "carousel".

Gee I wonder what generated that "carousel", are we to believe that the voters were so indecisive that they intentionally bounced between one candidate to the next when asked, could it be that some outside force was influencing who they were considering to vote for at the time and in this case before it even happened predicted as such? The media really has our fellow citizens all screwed up, it really is sad, can anyone say WMD-smoking-gun-mushroom-cloud?

So what is the take away from this? Of course the candidate, his staff and volunteers should work as much as they can with the goal of beating the other candidates by as far as a vote margin as possible, but never underestimate the power of the media to help push you competitor even one you may consider a dark horse across the finish line in the most ridiculous way imaginable with less than a month leading up to the caucus/primary.
 
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I think Rand wins both Iowa and NH. The reason Ron couldn't get over the hump in Iowa, even with the best ground game, was because he didn't have practically any religious conservatives or establishment conservatives. Rand has both of those.

How do you know Rand has the backing of religious conservatives in Iowa, what are you basing this on?
 
If Rand doesn't win Iowa and/or New Hampshire I hope he concedes and doesn't drag it out like the 2012 campaign. The one thing I regret about 2012 is donating after New Hampshire. Ron was on the cusp of winning Iowa but then he let Santorum run away with it. We can blame the media, but the fact is Santorum ran an aggressive retail politics campaign. If I remember correctly, Ron pretty much left the state shortly before the caucus.

Fortunately, even with the stronger candidates this time, Rand has already been campaigning and has the strategy and resources necessary to win the straw poll & delegates. The base might not be as energized, but Rand will have a greater variety of supporters. If he actually does get the nomination, I think that's when you'll see all the "Ron Paul People" come back.

I have a feeling he will run until Super Tuesday before dropping out if he is not ahead. It would probably be the right thing to do (so he can ensure he gets reelected to the Senate), but people are gonna be pissed off either way.
 
If Bush/Walker is considered "electable" compared to Rand next January by the Republican rank and file, he has no chance, unless he destroys that narrative. Rand should run a fusion candidacy seeking the GOP, LP and CP in order to transfer the campaign from being about just the Republican nomination, to one of having a true alternative with a serious national organization on the ballot on Election day. This would give him the leverage during the GOP primaries, as it would no lomger make the establishment frontrunner a sure thing.
 
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If Bush/Walker is considered "electable" compared to Rand next January by the Republican rank and file, he has no chance, unless he destroys that narrative. Rand should run a fusion candidacy seeking the GOP, LP and CP in order to transfer the campaign from being about just the Republican nomination, to one of having a true alternative with a serious national organization on the ballot on Election day.

But he won't destroy that narrative by attacking it directly, and calling out the mainstream mafia for trying to use that crap to 'disqualify' eligible candidates. But this needs to be done anyway.

Can't be his job. Must be our job.
 
Nothing, but the uphill battle Ron had was much more than Rand has, and he came 7-8 points away from winning Iowa. I thought that was a big accomplishment as well as gains made in local GOP positions (which might have been lost already).

What I am hoping for is the same people that were on these boards in 12 for Ron will be here for Rand in 16.


A lot of those people are gone. Some never came back after 08'. Some were banned.

It would be complete miracle to get the same makeup here that parused these forums brainstorming ideas back in the earlier days. I think a lot of the people that made up Ron's core supporters probably won't support Rand. I hope I'm wrong. I can't see the same number of voluntaryists coming out and actually considereing casting votes for Rand.
 
Being that every other POS lies his ass off to get elected, I am hoping that some of what Rand is doing is the same, only in reverse. And once/if he is elected, I hope he is more like his dad when he is in office.

If he does not get elected (or past the primary), we are screwed.
If he does get elected and is not hiding his dads beliefs only to reveal them later, we are screwed.
If he does get elected and then says "Surprise, I am more like my dad then I let on", then there is a chance... and that is the only hope I see.

A lot of IF's...
 
But he won't destroy that narrative by attacking it directly, and calling out the mainstream mafia for trying to use that crap to 'disqualify' eligible candidates. But this needs to be done anyway.

Can't be his job. Must be our job.

If Rand is solely seeking the Republican nomination, no matter whose job it is, neither Rand nor we have the ability or positioning to stop the establishment narrative. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF SIMPLY REASONING. A framework or expectation, once locked into the minds of primary voters, requires a change of circumstances to alter the mindset.

People who believe Bush can win as of early 2016 will ignore those who merely say this notion is false, as they ignored us in the cases of McCain and Romney. Only if the situation is changed (to knowing Paul will be on the ballot in November regardless, splitting the conservative vote) will change that frame work to "Bush can't win" in time to change their vote in the primaries.

Only the prospect of the pain of losing or actually losing, can realistically cause a change in political outcomes. Only when the tea party cost the GOP some elected incumbents did anything begin to change in recent election cycles, to cite another example.
 
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