Question about piracy as theft

[WaltM]

If pirating isn't stealing according to the argument that : "You still have it, you didn't lose it"

Then is selling an e-book actually selling it? Doesn't selling require somebody to lose, physically, a object of limited quantity, and which he gives up control over?

Do people who sell ebooks mind if it's been copied and given out for free (not to benefit anybody, but to hurt his sales)?

Is buying iTunes actually buying anything? You didn't obtain anything physically which is lost on another person's part.

 

[Matt Collins]

Theft is defined as taking someone's property with the intent to deprive them of it. If you go and shoplift a book, that is theft. If you make an unauthorized copy of a DVD and then distribute that is "copyright" infringement.

 

[brandon]

"buying" and "selling" don't necessarily have to involve the transfer of anything physical. You can buy services.


Is there a point to this thread other than an obscure semantics debate?

 

[low preference guy]

Piracy is not theft. It can be at most breaking a contract.

"buying" and "selling" don't necessarily have to involve the transfer of anything physical. You can buy services.

If you provide a service (let's say, advice) under some conditions (that he doesn't reveal your identity), and the person to whom you gave the service breaks your conditions later, then he broke a contract, but he didn't steal anything from you. What did he steal from you in that case?

Is there a point to this thread other than an obscure semantics debate?

If a poster criticizes Harry Reid for saying that taxation is voluntary, would the poster be just creating a "pointless" semantic debate?

 

[noxagol]

If pirating isn't stealing according to the argument that : "You still have it, you didn't lose it"

Then is selling an e-book actually selling it? Doesn't selling require somebody to lose, physically, a object of limited quantity, and which he gives up control over?

Do people who sell ebooks mind if it's been copied and given out for free (not to benefit anybody, but to hurt his sales)?

Is buying iTunes actually buying anything? You didn't obtain anything physically which is lost on another person's part.

You're not selling the book, you selling access to download the book.

Do they mind, yeah they probably do. Any real business wants to be the only business in town and they will despise any competition that comes about, especially if its off their work.

Buying access to download the song, and in this case a license to use it as well.

 

[akforme]

I don't think piracy is right, but I would say this is a private issue. They are having the government do their job for them. If they can prove somebody copied their "CD" than they should take them to court for copyright infringement.

 

[Matt Collins]

I don't think piracy is right, but I would say this is a private issue. They are having the government do their job for them. If they can prove somebody copied their "CD" than they should take them to court for copyright infringement.

They don't own the content contained on the media. No one does. But the original authors ("copyright" holders) have some specific protections or privileges granted to them by the US government.

 

[WaltM]

"buying" and "selling" don't necessarily have to involve the transfer of anything physical. You can buy services.


Is there a point to this thread other than an obscure semantics debate?

No, there isn't. Thanks for helping me in debunking the bullshit that copyright infringement isn't theft.

 

[WaltM]

I don't think piracy is right, but I would say this is a private issue.

Just like murder, robbery?

They are having the government do their job for them.

Like those red firetrucks that should be privatized?

If they can prove somebody copied their "CD" than they should take them to court for copyright infringement.

Or, they can accuse the infringer of not buying the original copy, making them prove that they copied it legally.

 

[WaltM]

Piracy is not theft. It can be at most breaking a contract.

What are you going to say next? that theft isn't a crime? it's at best a breaking of a contract?

 

[WaltM]

They don't own the content contained on the media. No one does. But the original authors ("copyright" holders) have some specific protections or privileges granted to them by the US government.

How is that not owning it for all intents and purposes?

How would it be different than saying "You don't own your house, just the exclusive legal privilege to live in it, control it, and guard it"?

 

[WaltM]

Theft is defined as taking someone's property with the intent to deprive them of it. If you go and shoplift a book, that is theft.

Can I shoplift without the intent to deprive them of it?

If you make an unauthorized copy of a DVD and then distribute that is "copyright" infringement.

how is that not depriving them of what they ask for in return?

 

[low preference guy]

What are you going to say next? that theft isn't a crime? it's at best a breaking of a contract?

Theft is wrong and it's a crime.

Breaking a contract is also wrong and it's a crime.

But piracy is not theft, just like lying is not theft. Not everything that is a crime is theft.

 

[low preference guy]

Maybe WaltM will be enlightened this way:

YouTube - Copying Is Not Theft - Best!

 

[WaltM]

Maybe WaltM will be enlightened this way:

YouTube - Copying Is Not Theft - Best!

very cute, so you're not against counterfeiting currency or ID theft, right? Since nobody owns the information, copying only makes MORE not LESS!

 

[LibForestPaul]

Maybe WaltM will be enlightened this way:

+1

 

[WaltM]

Theft is wrong and it's a crime.

Breaking a contract is also wrong and it's a crime.

But piracy is not theft, just like lying is not theft. Not everything that is a crime is theft.

is counterfeiting currency theft?
is taxation theft?

 

[LibForestPaul]

very cute, so you're not against counterfeiting currency or ID theft, right? Since nobody owns the information, copying only makes MORE not LESS!

Translation
Let me try to bring in any irrelevant situation to prove my point -1.

If a have a handful of poo, and I give it to you to copy, but you flush your copy down the commode, has any theft occurred.

 

[WaltM]

Translation
Let me try to bring in any irrelevant situation to prove my point -1.

If a have a handful of poo, and I give it to you to copy, but you flush your copy down the commode, has any theft occurred.

how do you copy poo? or even the essence of it, please, show me.

How is counterfeiting currency (or inflation) irrelevant to copyright infringement?
(both increase supply, decrease value)

How is ID theft irrelevant to copyright infringement?
(Both make unauthorized copies that mislead people into crediting or paying for something they didn't intend to)

 

[low preference guy]

is counterfeiting currency theft?
is taxation theft?

Taxation is theft.

Counterfeiting money is actually something worse than theft, and that requires an explanation.

Counterfeiting money is very complex, and the wrongdoing is not only in the person that counterfeits the money, i.e., prints the money. The damage is also done by forcing people to use one particular money by legal tender laws. That particular form of coercion is not literally theft, but it's of course still wrong, and it's what allows the counterfeiter to do his mischief.

In a technical sense, counterfeiting money is not theft, but it's a good word to describe it informally, because it's very close to it. Counterfeiting is in fact worse. It's denying people the ability to own worthwhile money. In that situation, your good money is not stolen because you're deprived from the possibility of owning good money, which is worse than theft. Something that you never owned can't be stolen from you.