President Lincoln on our Greatest Threat

[braumstr]

So let me get this straight, Abe Lincoln is a bad guy now? GTFOH.

GIVE ME A BREAK. Lincoln was 10x the man of ANY existing politician alive today. Not a single one could even match a days manual labor that Lincoln put in as a child, much less hold a candle to his executive ability.

and before anyone repeats the argument that the slaves could have been bought and freed by Lincoln.....that is ridiculous. The south would have never accepted those terms. Lincoln was left with the choice of allowing slavery to continue in violation of the constitution or ending it and preserving the Union.

He chose correctly and paid with his life.

Its just this kind of stupidity that never lets the otherwise sensible positions of Dr. Paul's see the light of day....

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

HAHAHA Ask Ron Paul how he feels about Lincoln...you will get an answer you don't like. Lincoln had no interest in freeing anyone...he had an interest in getting elected...he promised the industrial FEDERALIST PROTECTIONISTS in the north if they helped him get elected...he would raise the tariff's on southern goods moving north to 50%. This inflamed the south..South Carolina said if she were to be treated like a foreign country..she would BE a foreign country. Lincoln started the illegal War of Northern Aggression, he suspended the Writ of Habeus Corpus, he shredded the Constitution, he jailed 30,000 journalists for opposing his illegal war in print, he deported a congressman from Ohio for standing against LINCOLN's INCOME TAX, he belonged to a Society in Chicago dedicated to deporting all the blacks to Africa, Haiti and South America (remember Liberia?), Lincoln was a polecat and the worst president in the history of the USA. tones

 

[Njon]

Apologists for Pres. Lincoln should read http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo56.html and check out http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/lincoln-arch.html

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

oh, a new person. You have to learn, around here we are not too fond of Lincoln.

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

So let me get this straight, Abe Lincoln is a bad guy now? GTFOH.

GIVE ME A BREAK. Lincoln was 10x the man of ANY existing politician alive today. Not a single one could even match a days manual labor that Lincoln put in as a child, much less hold a candle to his executive ability.

and before anyone repeats the argument that the slaves could have been bought and freed by Lincoln.....that is ridiculous. The south would have never accepted those terms. Lincoln was left with the choice of allowing slavery to continue in violation of the constitution or ending it and preserving the Union.

He chose correctly and paid with his life.

Its just this kind of stupidity that never lets the otherwise sensible positions of Dr. Paul's see the light of day....

Every other country in the world managed to get rid of slavery without firing one bullet but Lincoln could not work that out? Many of the Union leaders (Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, etc) said numerous times that the war had little or nothing to do with slavery and southern leaders said the same things. This was an invasion of states who simply wished to be left alone, states who had paid more than their fair share to the federal government and saw almost none of the infrastructure improvements. Many of my ancestors died fighting that beast and if I were fortunate enough to be alive during that time period than I would have been standing on the front lines right along with them.

Now please do yourself a favor and go pick up a history book and stop buying into the public education induced myth that the war of northern aggression was fought so a bunch of evil white southerners could whip up on some poor black pieces of farm equipment.

 

[Epic]

Only government schools can make Lincoln out to be a good guy. "He killed 700,000 of the people he so desperately wanted in his union, but he was a nice guy!"

 

[penguin]

I can't promise I wouldn't be tempted to pop a squat...but I am just low class like that.

"Please say it, don't spray it."

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up. Asimplegirl you are aces in my book.

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

If anyone thinks Lincoln was such a great man they should take a trip down to the south, or just look at the pictures of southern cities that were burned to the ground. People were starved, burned out of their homes, raped, pillaged you name it. These were blacks and whites. The area in which I live now was burnt to the ground. There are still remnants here of homes that were burnt down. Most of the city had to be rebuilt.

 

[asimplegirl]

"Please say it, don't spray it."

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up. Asimplegirl you are aces in my book.

Thanks, Pengiun. You're pretty cool, too!

And, new guy...you should know that slavery was brought up much later after thy war had started by someone other than Lincoln as a means to end funds going into the South...no funds, no food, no ammo, no medical supplies or care. See how that works? The Emancipation Proclamation was done in drafts, and the one written and brought in during the war only stated that states that were resistant to the Union, were to have free slaves...the states that were connected to the North, and those that were the North could be kept. Check the dates, and read the drafts.

Put aside what he government has taught you and do a bit of research, and you will be surprised that they government does not have your best interests at heart. They merely want control over you and then to cover their tracks easily.

That is the thing about war. The winner can tell the story. Which one would you tell? The one where you want to keep the 70% of the funds running your government from a section of the country that wants to secede from you because you want MORE taxes, and you want to rid them of state's rights (slavery was merely ONE issue), and all of their ports bring in money to fund you, so you invade them, surround them, and taunt them, forcing them to defend themselves. Or would you instead tell the story that you wanted freedom for everyone, so you did it for the greater good?

I know which one I would tell.

BTW, why would Lincoln buy the slaves? Eli Whitney's creation came around very soon after the war ended...slavery was becoming obsolete, anyway. Everyone else had gotten rid of it at that time, and everyone, including R.E. Lee thought that it wasn't anything to be proud of.

Now, I have more if you are willing to listen...but I would prefer if you did the research on your own, as I didn't learn until I did it myself.

 

[ChaosControl]

So let me get this straight, Abe Lincoln is a bad guy now? GTFOH.

GIVE ME A BREAK. Lincoln was 10x the man of ANY existing politician alive today. Not a single one could even match a days manual labor that Lincoln put in as a child, much less hold a candle to his executive ability.

and before anyone repeats the argument that the slaves could have been bought and freed by Lincoln.....that is ridiculous. The south would have never accepted those terms. Lincoln was left with the choice of allowing slavery to continue in violation of the constitution or ending it and preserving the Union.

He chose correctly and paid with his life.

Its just this kind of stupidity that never lets the otherwise sensible positions of Dr. Paul's see the light of day....

So you like authoritarian governments? You think the murder of thousands upon thousands of Americans is justified when there were other solutions to the issue? Solutions that worked in other nations.

Had there been no war, had the slaves been bought and freed like they were in other nations, perhaps we'd have some semblance of the old south. Chivalry, honor, family values, etc. Instead we just have a bunch of carpet baggers nationwide.

Oh and how do you like a guy who puts a psychopath like Sherman in charge? A psychopath who thought it okay to burn down the homes, take all the food of and even kill and torture women and children. Yeah Lincoln and his pals were such great and noble beings.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

We can also talk about reconstruction...the 7 years after the War of Northern Aggression, how the south was under martial law..and yankee carpetbaggers took over our government with freed blacks who couldn't even READ...running the government in the south..and we can talk about how the southern states under martial law did not ratify the 13, 14, and 15th amendments. tones

 

[ChaosControl]

We can also talk about reconstruction...the 7 years after the War of Northern Aggression, how the south was under martial law..and yankee carpetbaggers took over our government with freed blacks who couldn't even READ...running the government in the south..and we can talk about how the southern states under martial law did not ratify the 13, 14, and 15th amendments. tones

Yeah, under reconstruction if you were white in the south, and not a carpet bagger sccumbag, you basically had no rights. Can I just leap into one of those alternate history books where the south won?

 

[diggronpaul]

States' rights took precedence over the federal government (10th Amendment). The southern states tried to assert their right to leave the union. The Civil War began to stop the southern states from secession.

Lincoln had to start the war; else the south would have been allowed to secede unimpeded.

Am I missing something here?

One thing that I've learned through research is that there is a tremendous amount of disinfo in our historical records, and one should not be so quick to judge nor assume that they have all the information. Therefore, coming to simplistic conclusions is naive at best. Here's another view that is not widely discussed or known.

The United States in 1860 was on the brink of total destruction. Abraham Lincoln knew it; a
handful of other patriots knew it on one level or another; and the plotters seeking to overthrow the
government were becoming bolder every day. What was the threat to the constitutional republic in
1860? Secession? The spread of slavery? Civil war? These dangers by then had been broadly
recognized—even openly promoted by leading Southerners. But these were secondary aspects
of a planned coup d'état to bring the constitutional republic of the United States to an end.
Abraham Lincoln dared to shoulder the unique responsibility for simultaneously defending the
republic from its enemies and creating the conditions for a lasting peace. As he said in his Cooper
Union address in 1860:

"Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against
us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government, nor of dungeons to
ourselves. Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith let us, to the end, dare to do
our duty as we understand it."


RE-CREATING THE REPUBLIC
How Abraham Lincoln Organized Victory
by H. Graham Lowry

There is evidence that Lincoln knew about the British combine plot to destroy America and and stood up to it on several key occasions. He was shut out of re-election to congress after trying to stop the US Mexican war. There were several assassination attempts on him in his lifetime. He also was prepared that they would kill him.

When Europe tried to make Lincoln take loans to fund the war, he printed US Treasury greenbacks instead, thumbing his nose at the European bankers.

I see no discussion here of the European (British) efforts to infiltrate the USA and destroy it from within, which is what Lincoln's quote in the OP refers to.

 

[asimplegirl]

Okay, well, Lincoln is still a complete loser, and I still despise him...I don't think you will change that for many of us.


You know, Bush did a few good things..that does not make him a success, or someone we should applaud throughout history, as he led the way for more rights to be taken away by his actions, whether they were well intentioned or not. Same with Lincoln....except the war he started on THIS soil was not for any reason except greed and power. Denying the rights of your own citizens and sending them to their deaths because they stood up for their rights is NOTHING I will applaud.

I stand by my convictions, and am not easily swayed away from what I know is true.

 

[Todd]

The quote is great as for what it speaks to. The truth that we will be destroyed from within is filled with wisdom. Much like Admiral Yamamoto's famous words

You cannot invade America. There is a rifle behind every blade of grass

As for the "greatness" of Lincoln. You're not going to find many here who fawn over him.

No one disputes this

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that..

Yeah...700,000 American deaths later and you want us to believe he was a great guy? Most every President that has led us into some "grand vision" thingy of war has been a statist. Statism isn't in line with a Republican government or liberal values.

 

[apropos]

Abraham Lincoln dared to shoulder the unique responsibility for simultaneously defending the republic from its enemies and creating the conditions for a lasting peace.

And therein lies Lincoln's tyranny. "Lasting peace". For better or worse, the U.S. Constitution was written to give primary power to the states, not to a centralized federal government.

To achieve that lasting peace meant the destruction of that autonomy and the transfer of power from state to federal entity. This peace was that of complete domination.

The Founders didn't worship their creation of a republic. In fact, they had a very low opinion of their newly-created government. If individual freedom would be protected by the destruction of America, they would welcome it, and this is shown by how they wrote the Constitution. "Defending the republic" wasn't nearly as important to them as their intention of defending personal liberty.

Lincoln destroyed that. If you read the Gettysburg Address and really take it at its face value about freedom, individual liberty, and a government for and by the people, shouldn't Lincoln logically be supporting the southerners who are fighting for just those things?

 

[AggieforPaul]

John Wilkes Booth and Aaron Burr are two of my all time favorite assassins.

 

[braumstr]

Yes, and I should believe all you Lincoln bashers know something the established experts don't because.................................?

The idea that someone disagrees with you does not mean they have not understood or have not made an effort to investigate for themselves. Can it be that perhaps someone did read up on something and found that the establishment got it right? Some of the arguments here remind me of the idiotic Christian's at my door from time to time, explaining how I should read their pamphlet because its so easy to understand.....never even considering that I might know the material better than they do yet still think they are full of shit.

Anyhow, good luck with your Lincoln bashing, thats great for your cause! Keep up the new faux news alliance too, awesome! oh and perhaps we could have some 9/11 truthers out and about, thats great too!

 

[asimplegirl]

Ever think that the establishment got it right because even though everything they taught was their own version of the truth they have people they educated defending them? Nah, that couldn't be exactly how they wanted it or anything.