Pragmatarianism -- *The FINAL Thread*

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So, this has gone on long enough I suppose. I don't know that it's really worth my time to think about Pragmatarianism, much less argue against it, but Rothbard condescended to address Georgism, and am I better than he? So let's at last look closer at Pragmatarianism.


Pragmatarianism: A Closer Look

At least one element has been notably missing in the Pragmatarian's discussions of his proposal, and that is rigor. Careful, rigorous, line-upon-line thought, designed to get at the definite truth of things. That element which he has scorned I will undertake to embrace.

Our buddy Bastiat, has given us a key. He says the bad economist looks only at the obvious -- that which can be perceived immediately. Looks only at the first effects, ignores all further consequences.

Pragmatarianism is the proposal that taxpayers earmark their taxes to go to certain purposes. The taxpayer still must pay the same amount of taxes; that does not change. But he directs what programs the money is spent on (probably by filling out some sort of form) and his directions must be obeyed.

In this case, what is the obvious? Choice > non-choice. Inject choice into a situation and that will be better than the situation without choice. And that's as deep as the Pragmatarian ever cares to dig. Choice is good; choice is freedom. Non-choice is bad; non-choice is central-planning. Choice lets everyone take their own perspectives into account and weigh their opportunity costs and exercise consumer sovereignty and leverage decentralized knowledge and in short bring every economic buzzword the Pragmatarian knows of into action to create the most optimal and efficient outcome possible.

Are there any less obvious things to consider? Any secondary or tertiary effects? Any other considerations?

Let's go back and consider why choice is economically beneficial at all. What happens in a transaction on a free market? Party A meets with Party B and together they agree to swap goods because A values B's goods more than his own goods which he gives up for them, and B vice versa. We know that they are both better off, because if they were not they would not have made the swap in the first place, since the transaction is voluntary. Because both A and B have been left free to make whatever transactions they like, we know that whatever transactions take place are ones which improve the well-being of all involved. No one would intentionally and voluntarily choose to make a transaction which is detrimental to their interests, any more than they would choose to engage in any action detrimental to them. Thus, giving free choice free reign leads inevitably to economic benefit.

What is happening in a Pragmatarian transaction? We can immediately see several stark differences between a Pragmatarian transaction and a free market transaction as described above. In a free market transaction, the terms are guaranteed to be favorable to both parties, because the terms are completely open-ended -- they need not be anything in particular, because ultimately, the transaction need not even take place! If the transaction does take place, we know that it was favorable to both parties, for both parties have complete control over what they agree to, and a final unappealable veto over the whole business. Every factor is open to negotiation: the type of goods purchased, the number of goods, from whom one is purchasing them, the price paid for them, the reversibility and other terms of the exchange, etc. The Pragmatarian transaction is very different indeed.

In a Pragmatarian transaction, Party A is the taxpayer, Party B is the state.


Type of Goods Purchased

Party A determines what type of goods he is going to acquire (by earmarking his tax dollars to go to certain programs), and Party B has no say in the matter. Also, through legal tender laws requiring taxes to be paid in legal tender, Party B determines what type of goods he is going to acquire, and Party A has no say in that matter. This is in contrast to the free market transaction, wherein both parties mutually decide what type of goods will change hands. In a Pragmatarian transaction, both decide unilaterally what type of goods they want, and force the other party to provide it to them, whether they like it or not.


Number of Goods Purchased

While Party A, the taxpayer, determines via earmarking what type of goods he will purchase, he does not determine the quantity of those goods he will receive. That is determined unilaterally by Party B; Party A has no say in it. That is, "A" may say: I wish to put $1,000 of my taxes towards building a new road, but he cannot determine just how much road he is going to get for $1,000 -- that will be up to the State. He is not purchasing "twenty feet of road" as he would purchase twenty gallons of milk or 20 square feet of factory space; he is purchasing "as much road as $1,000 will get me," and just how much that is is left wholly up to the discretion of Party B. This is quite important, since the quantity of goods is usually a major factor in the decision-making processes of economic actors. While twenty pounds of butter for $5 may be a good deal, a teaspoon of butter for $5 may not be such an attractive offer, and the actor may choose to forgo the latter exchange while they would have jumped at the former. Removing quantities from consideration makes it a very different situation for calculation. Instead of "20 lbs. butter" or "1 tsp. butter," all that is available to the consumer is "butter," just "butter" -- take it or leave it. Pure, platonic butter, as a concept, not as finite units.


From Whom Goods are Purchased

In a Pragmatarian transaction Party A has no choice as to who will be his trading partner. In a free market transaction, even if one party seems to have a stronger bargaining position, to have the upper hand, so to speak, his power is mitigated by the fact that others can provide the good he is offering, and most often they are providing it at that very time. A is not bound to trade with B and only B, he can go to C instead. This introduces the factor of competition, a factor which famously plays a very large role in the market. Few would call a system without free competition a free market system.

So, in a Pragmatarian transaction, there is one vendor: the state. A will be making his purchase from B. That is the end of the story. That is how it will be. There is no C. Thus, B occupies an overwhelmingly and disproportionately strong position in the transaction. There are no alternative vendors, neither extant nor which could theoretically arise, to mitigate his power in the least. B has a coercively-maintained monopoly over the market. This transaction's lopsided power disparity means that its terms will likely not be very favorable to A, and will be very favorable to B. The powerful monopolist, B, is likely to benefit quite a bit from such a transaction, while the hamstrung and weak A is not likely to benefit very much, if at all.

Also because of this lack of choice in trading partners, the forces of free competition will be non-existent, forces which are so successful in driving forward innovation, efficiency, and progress of all kinds. The Pragmatarian will contest this, claiming that competition does exist, between the various agencies or divisions of the state. The road division will compete with the police division, each attempting to gain the consumer dollar. This is a contrived and very partial form of competition, though, and one without the power of true, full, and free competition. Free competition means first and foremost: free entry. In the artificial quasi-competition of Pragmatarianism, each division of the state is a monopoly kingdom, with absolute hegemony over its domain. No one else can come in and start offering to provide roads or police services. Such a new upstart would be bopped on the head and his venture razed to the ground. No, this is a kind of mercantilism, each division with a clearly defined and static domain, and that is its "turf," which it owns forever and no one can come in and compete with it on its "turf." This is a stagnant and artificial "market," and very much in contrast to the dynamic, open, ever-changing market of free entry and thus free competition.



Total Size of the Transaction

In the free market, the total size of transaction is up to the parties involved. One might choose to buy a single Quarter Pounder, or a five-pound roll of ground beef, or to go to the farmer and buy the whole cow. In a Pragmatarian transaction, on the other hand, the size of the transaction is a given. The price A will pay is fixed. That price is his tax bill, and what that total comes to is a completely separate issue from Pragmatarianism, not coming under its loving purview.

So what does this mean? For one thing, it eliminates the opportunity cost of the transaction from consideration entirely. No longer will Mr. A weigh the benefits of spending one additional dollar on beef vs. the foregone joy of spending one additional dollar on funny hats. Now any alternative joys are already foregone; he has no choice about it. It's a done deal. No need to weigh anything. His tax bill is what it is and there's nothing he can do about it. He's giving $10,000 to the beef man this year and that's it.

For another thing: the Pragmatarian likes to take each individual earmark that A makes ($20 to French diplomacy, $200 for zero-gravity toiletries) as a separate transaction. This fiction makes his construct appear superficially slightly more like a market. However it is fiction. In reality, the entire tax payment is one transaction. The transaction is not divisible and separable. One cannot itemize the separate items on the tax bill and treat them as separate transactions. One can often do exactly this in a world of market transactions, because in that case each separate line-item could have, in theory, not taken place, had the purchaser decided not to purchase it. Thus the main cable service, the movie channels, and the extra WWF channel, could all be considered either one big purchase or as separate purchases, because each is separable and terminable. If the consumer had chosen to forgo the joy of world wrestling, his bill would have been $20 less, so he did in a sense pay $20 for the wrestling. That is not true for the line-items in a Pragmatarian transaction. In that case, the price is set. Mr. A may cancel the wrestling, but he's not going to get his $20 back; he merely gets to redirect it towards some other good that B offers. The tax payment must be considered as one lump transaction, even if the taxpayer directs it to be spent in 500 separate divisions.


Consequences

What results can we expect to come about due to the nature of a Pragmatarian transaction and its differences from a free market transaction? Some have been mentioned as we went along: lack of the forces of free competition, disproportionate power for B and weakness for A, lack of ability to take into consideration opportunity cost external to the transaction, etc.

Another interesting dilemma is that Party A is no longer able to ordinally rank discrete units of goods in terms of their value to him. This means that the forces of the diamond/water paradox will be in full swing. What is the diamond/water paradox? If given the choice between water or diamonds in an absolute sense, everyone would choose water. Water is fundamentally essential to life; diamonds are mere frippery. Yet diamonds are very expensive, water is virtually free, indicating that diamonds' value is high, while water's value is low. Why? Only considering goods in term of units can this be solved. You may prefer all the water in the world to all the diamonds in the world, sure, but we never make that choice. We choose between units, between this particular gallon of water and this particular diamond ring. And in that case, since we already have 10,000 gallons of water a month, it might indeed be more valuable to us to have a diamond ring rather than another 500,000 gallons of water. But what happens if we are artificially flung into a bizarre system wherein we must choose between diamonds and water as pure concepts, with no units? If everyone knows that water is more important, will anyone ever choose diamonds?

The perverse incentive problems of the state are still in full swing as well. A good way for a division to get more funding will be to fail horribly at its given task. Then people, wanting the service, will have no choice but to earmark more taxes to that division. This perverse incentive for failure and incompetence will be stronger the more indispensable the the division's services are (or are perceived to be).

The Pragmatarian system lowers the transaction cost of participating in the auction of government largess. It essentially is a program which makes it easy and effortless to "be a lobbyist from the comfort of your own home." I will draw a parallel between it and the negative income tax. The negative income tax (or guaranteed minimum income) is the idea that people with incomes less than such-and-such just receive a check, automatically. No bureaucracy, no hassles, no case workers, no filling out applications and getting approved. You just get money. Seems like it would be an improvement over our current convoluted welfare system, right? I do not think so. I think the bureaucracy and the hassles of the current system is its only saving grace preventing it from destroying the poor even more rapidly and thoroughly than it already is. The red tape and the hoops you've got to go through and the whole demeaning process is a barrier to entry which prevents many people from going on welfare. The hassle is a transaction cost. Remove all that and yes, the system would be more efficient, but when the system is destructive, is efficiency really what you want? Likewise the Pragmatarian trumpets his system's "efficiency." It may be more efficient, but more efficient at what? It will be more efficient at allowing extremely large numbers of people to have control over the disposition of state largesse. It lowers the transaction cost of participating in that great auction that is state spending. Pragmatarianism makes it easy to be a consumer of tax dollars. No longer must you be a professional lobbyist and move to Washington. No longer must you represent an interest at least large enough to support such a professional lobbyist. Every interest group, no matter how small, can now have a say, and an incontestable say, in how tax dollars are spent. Only .01% of the population might want to spend money on Urban Giraffe Attack Wargames, but if they check that box on their Pragmatarian tax forms, ain't nothin' nobody can do to stop 'em. The giraffes are going to be coming to a street near you.

Can we make any predictions as to what kind of "purchases" people will make, given that:

The transaction is a given, as is its size -- A has no choice but to spend the money.
With the greatest of ease, A can choose to spend it on whatever he wants.

Pragmatarianism doubtless puts some sort of restraints on what type of things can be purchased. I do not know what specific rules and constraints any given implementation of Pragmatarianism will have. But I can predict that one of the major behaviors these rules will seek to prevent is that of somehow earmarking the money back to oneself. If everyone is earmarking what their tax bill is going towards, they will, naturally, earmark those things which will benefit themselves the most. If permitted to, they will earmark money for upgrading the road in front of their home, but none for the road across town. Within the education division, we can expect to see (proportionally) more continuing adult education and less children's education, as the extremely numerous childless adult households earmark the funds in a self-interested way. One man will earmark money for a water-slide in the state pool he frequents, another for the library he loves. This brings up the question of the granularity of the earmarking system -- will A be able to earmark funds for particular books, or only for a particular library, or only for the library system in general? This is a question which I have never seen a pragmatarian address, but then again it is a mere question of implementation. There are many such questions, many potentially problematic, but my focus in this essay has been to focus on the economic effects of Pragmatarianism, assuming it could be implemented somehow. In that context, we can only draw the conclusion that A's earmarking will be such that -- limited by whatever rules exist -- it comes as close as he can possibly get to simply writing a check back to himself.
 
Please feel free to direct our friend Mr. Xerographica to this thread whenever he seems confused about not having been addressed or answered. (Originally posted here.)
 
  1. Is anarcho-capitalism the most economically beneficial destination? Yes/No
  2. If we give taxpayers the keys to the car would they drive us to anarcho-capitalism? Yes/No
  3. If not, then why wouldn't 150 million value seeking, self-interested, utility maximizing, purposefully acting, psychic profit seeking taxpayers drive us to anarcho-capitalism?
  4. Why wouldn't taxpayers boycott every single government organization one by one out of existence?
  5. If taxpayers didn't drive us to anarcho-capitalism...then where would they drive us to? Minarchism? Libertarianism? Liberalism? Pragma-socialism?
  6. Is pragma-socialism the most economically beneficial destination?
  7. Does the destination even matter to most taxpayers? Or would they just care about results?
 
  1. Is anarcho-capitalism the most economically beneficial destination? Yes/No


  1. Yes.

    [*]If we give taxpayers the keys to the car would they drive us to anarcho-capitalism? Yes/No
    No.

    [*]If not, then why wouldn't 150 million value seeking, self-interested, utility maximizing, purposefully acting, psychic profit seeking taxpayers drive us to anarcho-capitalism?
    Perverse incentives. Various incentives and factors described in Opening Post.
    [*]Why wouldn't taxpayers boycott every single government organization one by one out of existence?
    Perverse incentives.
    [*]If taxpayers didn't drive us to anarcho-capitalism...then where would they drive us to? Minarchism? Libertarianism? Liberalism? Pragma-socialism?
    Apparently to some strange place wherein everyone attempts to live at the expense of everyone else, by voting themselves state largesse.
    [*]Is pragma-socialism the most economically beneficial destination?
    Based on the name: I doubt it.
    [*]Does the destination even matter to most taxpayers? Or would they just care about results?
    It depends what you mean by "care." Many taxpayers do have ideologies, but it is doubtful these ideologies would play the main role in their tax-earmarking decisions. If they did, the role they would play and the decisions resulting might not be entirely straightforward and intuitive.
 
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Perverse incentives. Various incentives and factors described in Opening Post.

I said that taxpayers are value seeking, self-interested, utility maximizing, purposefully acting and psychic profit seeking. Are you telling me that taxpayers are actually waste seeking, self-disinterested, utility minimizing, meaningless acting and psychic loss seeking?
 
I said that taxpayers are value seeking, self-interested, utility maximizing, purposefully acting and psychic profit seeking. Are you telling me that taxpayers are actually waste seeking, self-disinterested, utility minimizing, meaningless acting and psychic loss seeking?
You don't understand economics. You don't understand anything I wrote.

That's if I'm to take your above post at face value. You at least are acting as if you understood nothing I wrote.
 
You don't understand economics. You don't understand anything I wrote.

That's if I'm to take your above post at face value. You at least are acting as if you understood nothing I wrote.

1. Adam Smith, Mises and Rothbard all agreed that people seek the most value for their money.
2. Taxpayers would seek the most value for their money in the public sector.
3. You said that anarcho-capitalism provides the most value
4. You said that allowing taxpayers to seek the most value in the public sector would not lead to anarcho-capitalism
5. Therefore, according to your logic....Smith, Mises and Rothbard were all wrong
6. I don't think that Smith, Mises and Rothbard were all wrong
7. Therefore, I can understand why you think that I don't understand economics

It's really simple...

Taxpayer A gives $1 to public organization A and receives -15 utilities in return
Taxpayer A gives $1 to public organization B and receives -10 utilities in return
Taxpayer A gives $1 to public organization C and receives 0 utilities in return

Taxpayer B gives $1 to public organization A and receives -25 utilities in return
Taxpayer B gives $1 to public organization B and receives -15 utilities in return
Taxpayer B gives $1 to public organization C and receives -5 utilities in return

Taxpayer C gives $1 to public organization A and receives -10 utilities in return
Taxpayer C gives $1 to public organization B and receives -5 utilities in return
Taxpayer C gives $1 to public organization C and receives 3 utilities in return

Which public organization would they give their taxes to? Obviously they would give their taxes to public organization C. Organizations A and B would go extinct, the scope of government would narrow and taxpayers would be that much closer to maximizing their value in anarcho-capitalism land.

The thing is, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place and you know it. Either Smith, Mises and Rothbard misjudged people and came to the wrong conclusions...OR anarcho-capitalism does NOT provide the most value. Clearly you've decided that anarcho-capitalism DOES provide the most value. Except, if you want to disprove pragmatarianism now you have to disprove Smith, Mises and Rothbard. Which, obviously you can't do. Therefore, your response was to tell me that I don't understand economics.

You're not going to win at this. All you can do is to try and hopefully obfuscate everything to the point where people might be confused into thinking that you've landed some fatal blows against pragmatarianism. Your effort speaks louder than your words. Clearly you have absolutely no confidence that anarcho-capitalism provides the most value. If you did have confidence that anarcho-capitalism provides the most value then you would relish giving value-seeking taxpayers the opportunity to see for themselves just how much more value the private sector provides them.

How can you go around and promote anarcho-capitalism when you have such little confidence in its value? Man up! Either admit that you don't know whether anarcho-capitalism would truly provide people with the most value or put your money where your mouth is. If the tax allocation decisions of 150 million value seeking taxpayers cannot prove that anarcho-capitalism provides the most value...then NOTHING can.
 
You are typing the same posts over and over and over.

3. You said that anarcho-capitalism provides the most value
4. You said that allowing taxpayers to seek the most value in the public sector would not lead to anarcho-capitalism
5. Therefore, according to your logic....Smith, Mises and Rothbard were all wrong

3. I say having no buggy-whip stores would be economically ideal
4. I say that allowing buggy-whip customers (mandatory "customers") to earmark how the (one single monopoly) buggy-whip store spends the money from their mandatory buggy-whip purchases would not lead to having no buggy-whip stores.
5. Therefore, according to my logic....Smith, Mises and Rothbard were all wrong.

Look, I could go through your post line by line and refute it, but would it be worth my time?

You, on the other hand, are you capable of going through my post line by line and refuting it? Seriously, are you?

Now yes, I've been jabbing at you a bit the last few days. I know I've probably made you mad, and so you've just shut me down and stopped listening, and I apologize for that. I guess I was just a bit frustrated by your behavior. But I am not Roy L. I'm not just jabbing and insulting. I am a real person with no particular animosity towards you. And if you would like to discuss some real economics as it applies to your pet vehicle, this is the place to do it. Or you can continue proving my "uncharitable characterization" to be accurate by offering a lot of hot air and no actual substance, and no actual dialogue.
 
Just out of curiosity: have you ever read any actual books by these men you cite: Smith, Mises, and Rothbard? Which? Just to give me an idea of where you're coming from.
 
Interesting discussion; helmuth is an asshole apparently, but still interesting to read.

But I am still siding with Xerographica's idea: If I could have some real power/influence of federal spending, I would definitely take the time to fill out that extra tax form.

No further discussion necessary:

1. Current system
vs
2. Current system with some influence over spending.

I'd choose #2
 
Interesting discussion; helmuth is an asshole apparently, but still interesting to read.

But I am still siding with Xerographica's idea: If I could have some real power/influence of federal spending, I would definitely take the time to fill out that extra tax form.

No further discussion necessary:

1. Current system
vs
2. Current system with some influence over spending.

I'd choose #2

Yes, because those are the ONLY options. :rolleyes:

And HH is the asshole?
 
Interesting discussion; helmuth is an asshole apparently, but still interesting to read.
That is the last thing I'd want to be. I did realize that was kind of what I was being and so I wrote post #9 above. You have to realize Xerographica's pattern of behavior -- I was not entirely unprovoked -- but still, I always try to take the high road.

Do you think I was being nasty even in the opening post? I thought that kept a even and fair tone; just an honest scholarly look at Pragmatarianism.

But I am still siding with Xerographica's idea: If I could have some real power/influence of federal spending, I would definitely take the time to fill out that extra tax form.

No further discussion necessary:

1. Current system
vs
2. Current system with some influence over spending.

I'd choose #2
This was my original position, until Mr. X., by being so block-headed and annoying, provoked me into taking a closer look. Upon further examination, there are some problems.

We have some influence over spending currently, through various mechanisms. Prag just cuts out the middle-man, it streamlines the process. Is streamlining a good thing? Not always. As in the case of the Basic Minimum Income / Reverse Income Tax proposal, it can actually be far worse than the convoluted, inefficient, unresponsive system. Unresponsive is sometimes less destructive than responsive.

What would happen if the State were more responsive to the people's spending demands in the specific way Mr. X. proposes? What do you think, deadfish? Did you understand some of my economic arguments in the Opening Post?
 
Virtual Xero

You are typing the same posts over and over and over.
That's not true. Each post I make is uniquely crafted, just for you. It just seems that way to you because I'm making the same points over and over. And I'm forced to do that because you guys never reply to them.

It's real simple:

1. Is anarcho-capitalism valuable?
2. Are consumers able to successfully choose those products which are the most valuable? Isn't that how the market works?
3. Then why wouldn't consumers choose anarcho-capitalism?

It's just that simple. You're making it too complicated. Refute me on any of those three points above, or else admit I'm right and join me in the great Pragma Magna Movement!

3. I say having no buggy-whip stores would be economically ideal
4. I say that allowing buggy-whip customers (mandatory "customers") to earmark how the (one single monopoly) buggy-whip store spends the money from their mandatory buggy-whip purchases would not lead to having no buggy-whip stores.
5. Therefore, according to my logic....Smith, Mises and Rothbard were all wrong.
What do buggy-whip stores have to do with anarcho-capitalism? You're just trying to change the subject again.

Look, I could go through your post line by line and refute it, but would it be worth my time?
Only you can answer that, depending on your opportunity costs. Certainly I feel like it would be worthwhile for you to pursue the truth. Since Pragmatarianism would be the best way to achieve anarcho-capitalism, and since achieving anarcho-capitalism is clearly important to you, it seems like it would be time well-spent towards achieving your own goals to become a part of the Pragma Magna Movement.

You, on the other hand, are you capable of going through my post line by line and refuting it? Seriously, are you?
Sure. You ignore consumers. You ignore the fact the individual perspectives and values matter. You ignore that people are better able to make their own decisions than 592.5 Congressmen. You ignore everything that's important about Pragmatarianism. That's the problem with your analysis. It just has nothing whatsoever to do with Pragmatarianism.

And if you would like to discuss some real economics as it applies to your pet vehicle, this is the place to do it. Or you can continue proving my "uncharitable characterization" to be accurate by offering a lot of hot air and no actual substance, and no actual dialogue.
You are the one who's ignoring real economics, ignoring all the salient points of Pragmatarianism, and instead focusing on something made up out of your imagination, hoping to confuse people by just plunking down huge quantities of irrelevant obfuscatory verbiage.

Just out of curiosity: have you ever read any actual books by these men you cite: Smith, Mises, and Rothbard? Which? Just to give me an idea of where you're coming from.
Nice try, but ad hominem attacks prove nothing.
 
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Remember that we already disproved it here too: http://libertariananarchy.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/hello-world/

Let's see some things he didn't address from our critique: (a) the infeasibility of capital structure, (b) the impossibility of true savings, (c) the idea that economic calculation would be messed up, (d) the subsequent inevitability of shortages and surpluses, (e) the idea that pragmatarianism would force the people into propping up at least one government agency and hence income is fixed, (f) the moral nihilism and failures of the system, (g) the idea that the majority vote on the Pragmatarian Agency List doesn't represent the desires of various individuals, (h) the fact that he is misdefining terms like the invisible hand, (i) the fact that pragmatarianism imposes an even more partial knowledge on the partial knowledge which already exists, (j) the fact that we support "pragmatarianism" to the extent it is a conducive strategy in reducing the state, but not to the extent that it increases the state.

Good work though helmuth!
 
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The transaction is a given, as is its size -- A has no choice but to spend the money.
With the greatest of ease, A can choose to spend it on whatever he wants.
(No offence helmuth, you did an essentially great job in your critique, but, no, pragmatarianism only lets you "invest" tax money within the parameters of voter determined government functions -- not "whatever A wants." See my essay for the citation on this).
 

No, you did not disprove pragmatarianism. You simply disproved your own ridiculous straw man argument. Let me paste my actual arguments for a third time in a row now. Let's see if you fail to even respond to them for a third time in a row now...

Pragmatarians have already been disproved.

Not sure how we can have TWO people advocating a disproved ideology now. Crazy.

You can't disprove something that you don't even understand. Here's what you wrote in this thread...Taxes Are Not the Problem...

Geeze dude, this is the whole point. (Thank god, you may be getting it). And the larger point is that at higher tax rates, it (pragmatarianism) would suck just as much as socialism. - Bourgeois (aka Anarcho-Capitalist)

Here was my response...

Errr...I've always understood that taxes on their own represent an inefficient allocation of resources...Is There a Platypus Controlling You?

What you don't seem to grasp is that pragmatarianism at a higher tax rate would certainly not suck just as much as socialism. Socialism sucked because you had a committee determining the distribution of an entire nation's resources. Everybody makes mistakes which is why you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. In a pragmatarian system though...you would have millions and millions taxpayers directly allocating their own taxes. They would determine the distribution of public funds.

What you also still seem to be missing is an explanation of how we ended up at a higher tax rate. Like I said, congress would determine the tax rate...and taxpayers would be in charge of funding congress. Not only would taxpayers be in charge of funding congress but they would also be in charge of funding the IRS.

How could the tax rate gradually rise...but millions and millions of self-interested taxpayers wouldn't do anything about it? Why wouldn't millions and millions of taxpayers notice the suck? The only reason they wouldn't do anything about it would be because there wouldn't be any suck to act purposefully against.

Regarding your water park example. Is the private sector or the public sector better at supplying water parks? If you say that the private sector is better at supplying water parks then how did the water park end up in the public sector? Why would enough people vote for the water park to be a public good? Of course they would have to realize that as the public sector expanded...then congress would have greater justification for raising the tax rate.

Let's say it ends up in the public sector and I value water parks. When I go to the water park website I see their fundraising progress bar is maxed out. Clearly I wouldn't derive any utility from spending any of my hard-earned taxes on a fully funded government organization. So I'd move on to my next priority...if it wasn't fully funded then I'd spend my taxes there. If it was fully funded then I'd move on to my next priority. What happens if all my valued public organizations are fully funded?

Well...either the tax rate is too high or I should have more government organizations to spend my taxes on. So either I rally for something I value to be added to the list...perhaps a botanical garden...or I rally congress to lower the tax rate.

If you're going to use a high tax rate example in your critique of pragmatarianism...then you have to explain exactly how we arrived at that tax rate. Congress would only raise taxes if enough people noticed that the government organizations that they valued hadn't met their fundraising goals for the year. But if you hate water parks...then even if the tax rate was 100%...you still wouldn't give any of your taxes to water parks.

Therefore...at high tax rates pragmatarianism would NOT suck just as much as socialism. That you think it would suck just as much as socialism clearly reveals that you have no idea what you're talking about. Therefore, you did not disprove pragmatarianism...you merely proved your own ignorance...and demonstrated that you are perfectly capable of disproving strawman arguments that solely exist because you created them.

Feel free to try again...unless you understand that it is not possible to disprove pragmatarianism. Sure, there's no doubt that taxes represent an inefficient allocation of resources. So how exactly would allowing the invisible hand to determine the distribution of public funds result in an even more inefficient allocation of resources? How would the invisible hand expand...rather than shrink...the public sector? How would the invisible hand increase...rather than decrease...the tax rate? In other words...how would the invisible hand inefficiently allocate resources?
 
LOL. I'm not responding to it because I think it's a strawman, which my critique already addressed. You're assuming that my critique actually assumes that a pragmatarian society will have a tax rate of 100%. This isn't the case. It could be 30%, but all the problems I described still apply (just to a smaller extent). xD
 
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(No offence helmuth, you did an essentially great job in your critique, but, no, pragmatarianism only lets you "invest" tax money within the parameters of voter determined government functions -- not "whatever A wants." See my essay for the citation on this).
If it's a set list, which it probably would be, then yes, you're right -- it's not an open-ended choice as in the free market, it's a very constrained multiple-choice decision. I should have put it differently, or taken that out altogether or something. Anyway Mr. X. has never defined to me exactly what kind of choices the taxpayer could make, just that he could make a choice. Could he "write-in" a new agency to be formed? So could the taxpayer say "I want to use this money to buy a new car. To be delivered to my house for me to use. This shall be called the Department of My New Car."? Who knows. Lots of questions. None likely to be answered.
 
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