Practical Anarcho-Capitalist in favor of small war on Libya

[Vessol]

Sure. Self means other people. You're a genius.

If this is going to dissolve into ad hominem's, I'm going to sleep. Bye.

 

[low preference guy]

I'm self-taught. That means, I go to school and learn from professors. Professors are just tools that I use to self-teach myself, like pens.

 

[RokiLothbard]

Not when it involves the systematic slaughter of many people whom have not committed any aggression. Ghadaffi is not a one man army.

Ya but haven't the people who have joined Ghadaffi's actual army pretty much actually signalled their intention, in a fully libertarian qualified way, that they intend on committing violence on other people, like right now?

So am I morally allowed to take pot shots at them or not? Please let me know, my plane tickets to Libya are for Thursday at 4:34pm*

*just to be clear that is a complete joke. I'll be at work on Thursday, like normal.

 

[Vessol]

I'm self-taught. That means, I go to school and learn from professors. Professors are just tools that I use to self-teach myself, like books.

That would be correct. Your teacher is not forcing you to be taught, you have entered into a voluntary agreement with him over your tutelage. It is the teaching of ones self with the assistance of others.

 

[Vessol]

Ya but haven't the people who have joined Ghadaffi's actual army pretty much actually signalled their intention, in a fully libertarian qualified way, that they intend on committing violence on other people, like right now?

So am I morally allowed to take pot shots at them or not? Please let me know, my plane tickets to Libya are for Thursday at 4:34pm*

*just to be clear that is a complete joke. I'll be at work on Thursday, like normal.

Yes, it's fine if you shoot and kill them. As you are either defending yourself or others in a collective self-defense agreement.

What are you going to do when you miss and your bullet passes through a mud wall and hits granny in the head?

What are you going to do when the rebels raid a loyalist town and rape the women there? What are you going to do when they capture a loyalist soldier and sadistically torture him?

 

[low preference guy]

That would be correct. Your teacher is not forcing you to be taught, you have entered into a voluntary agreement with him over your tutelage. It is the teaching of ones self with the assistance of others.

Right. And when someone says "I'm self taught", we all know that's exactly that he meant.

 

[Vessol]

Right. And when someone says "I'm self taught", we all know that's exactly that he meant.

He could mean a multitude of things. He could mean that he read a lot of books, used the internet a lot, or used the assistance of a tutor.

Just like someone uses self-defense, they could be using a multitude of different ways to defend themselves.

When talking about self-motivation, there are many different ways I could achieve this as well.

The philosophy of liberty revolves around the Self.

 

[RokiLothbard]

The ends do not not justify the means.

whatever else I say, I wanna say I agree with this, at least in accordance to my own understandings of the terms.

 

[Vessol]

whatever else I say, I wanna say I agree with this, at least in accordance to my own understandings of the terms.

Then there would be no way to morally help the rebels besides perhaps training as a bunch of spec ops and killing only those who have made their intentions of violence clear.

Otherwise, there will always be unintended deaths.

 

[low preference guy]

He could mean a multitude of things. He could mean that he read a lot of books, used the internet a lot, or used the assistance of a tutor.

According to 1 in 10,000,000 people?

 

[Vessol]

According to 1 in 10,000,000 people?

Whats the difference between using a tutor and using a book to teach myself. Did a man not write that book? Does it make it a difference that I am using that medium to assist in my learning? That man is still indirectly helping in my learning by writing that book in the first place.

I as a gun salesperson, sell guns to people and assist them indirectly with their self-defense. It may be indirectly, but I'm still assisting with their self-defense.

 

[RokiLothbard]

What are you going to do when you miss and your bullet passes through a mud wall and hits granny in the head?

What if I shoot at a robber at my actual literal front door, but miss and hit a granny across the street in the head?

Hopefully, I'll feel really shitty and attempt some reparations. But am I going to claim that I shouldn't have taken the shot? No. I'm going to claim I should have had better aim.

Or shit. At that point I might actually go all quaker on your ass and commit myself to pacifism. But I still wouldn't be a morally condescending pacifist. I'd be a "come along and join the real jesus and make the sacrifice" pacifist.

 

[RokiLothbard]

Then there would be no way to morally help the rebels besides perhaps training as a bunch of spec ops and killing only those who have made their intentions of violence clear.

Otherwise, there will always be unintended deaths.

Do "people who are paid directly from stolen funds, and expect such theft to continue as a necessary and sufficient condition of their employment" constitute a group who have "made their intentions of violence clear"?

Honest question. "No" is viable answer, as long as you show your work.

 

[Kludge]

Carry on.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

So let me get this straight.. Once America or Texas or Austin becomes an anarcho-capitalist society way off in the unimaginable future, you want some company to organize a war on the Libyan government, to overthrow it. You didn't say you wanted a private company exactly, but your listed conditions specify it as thus (no government would raise funds for war through voluntary means). Some company advertises the service "overthrow Libyan government" and a bunch of libertarians will be like "yeah that is a worthy cause, I shall voluntarily chip in to it", and then they just go about this merry little private crusade against a government on the other side of the planet? You see this happening? You actually made this in to a thread?

I agree with Kludge. Carry on.

 

[LibertyEagle]

ya, I'm kind of stirring the pot

conditions:

1) withdraw from Iraq
2) withdraw from Afghanistan
3) all-volunteer forces*
4) all funds** for project are raised on a voluntary basis***

* I don't mean they volunteered for the Navy. I mean they volunteered for this particular mission/campaign. Combat pay is negotiable, but must be compatible with condition (4).

** yes there is some accounting to be done for capital depreciation on US millitary hardware. the accounting won't be perfect. I just ask that an honest effort is made.

*** overseas donations are welcome.

It would still be carried out in the name of the United States government and as such, it would endanger us all. Just like when our government carries out missions in other countries that have not attacked us, nor offer any eminent threat. There is far more than money at risk here.

I mean really. Even I as an Acarcho-Capitalist think that if there is one "legitimate" use for "legitimate" government, then it's to go kick the crap out of other "legitimate" governemnts who are more evil. And I do think that the Libyan goverment meets meets the criterion here.

I am a traditional conservative and even I don't think this is a legitimate use of government. What business is it of ours to dictate to another country what kind of government they have and who they have running it? It simply is none of our business.

Think about what you are suggesting here. This is exactly how we have created so many enemies around the world.

Note: If you consider yourself an ancap, please explain to me how what you are suggesting does not obliterate the non-aggression principle? Please explain how Libya has attacked us that would justify using this force against them. How are they threatening our national defense?