PPP: Ron Paul now second in Iowa

The Heroin question could be laughed off as it was to some degree onstage. The Bin Laden question was spun to be the political equivelent to saying Kennedy was a jerk the day after Dallas. The latter hurt us far more than the former.
 
nate895 said:
Libertarianism has been a dead ideology for a long time. It has its highs and lows, but conservatives have been warned by Russell Kirk and the like to be weary of libertarians, and they have heeded their advice ever since. I'm not embarking on a libertarian crusade, not so much because of any political future I might have, but because I'm not a libertarian and I don't want to be associated with someone who is such a fierce one so as to miss the golden opportunity. This is Ron Paul's golden opportunity. He need only reach out and try to understand where conservatives are coming from.
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Libertarianism has it's strong and weak points, like anything. I don't think it should be summarily dismissed for it's weaker traits.
 
nate895 said:
Libertarianism has been a dead ideology for a long time. It has its highs and lows, but conservatives have been warned by Russell Kirk and the like to be weary of libertarians, and they have heeded their advice ever since. I'm not embarking on a libertarian crusade, not so much because of any political future I might have, but because I'm not a libertarian and I don't want to be associated with someone who is such a fierce one so as to miss the golden opportunity. This is Ron Paul's golden opportunity. He need only reach out and try to understand where conservatives are coming from.
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You are certainly right about this being his golden opportunity. If Huckabee was being truthful, maybe God did tell him to stay out because he already told Ron Paul he was going to win this one.

I honestly believe that this may very well be the best chance our generation may ever have to save itself. It kind of feels like we are on the edge of a knife. Fall one way and we go into the promised land, the other and it is oblivion. Wow, without Huckabee, if the field is Romney, Pawlenty, Santorum, Cain, Dr. Paul, Newt, Johnson, and maybe Trump; Ron Paul really does have the best shot in my lifetime to be a real President.

He already has a leg up over Cain, Santorum, Pawlenty, and Newt with name recognition, support, and fund raising. You guys are right. If he can pull out a win at Ames and set him up for a win in Iowa, he will be leagues ahead of them. When Dr. Paul wins an actual state and Ames he will have erased the "unelectable" name tag, and with that gone, he will be able to handedly defeat Romney in the battle for the most conservative, knowledgable, and winable Republican.

This is an exciting time people. I am so glad that I am here for this. Maybe one day I can tell my kids a story about how I was part of helping an honest man save the world.
 
AuH20 said:
Libertarianism has it's strong and weak points, like anything. I don't think it should be summarily dismissed for it's weaker traits.
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If you think I have summarily dismissed libertarianism, you neglected to read how many posts I have on these very libertarian forums. I've read anarchist literature, for Pete's sake. I find libertarianism to be distasteful, both intellectually and from a human perspective. It is too simpleton. It's absolute liberty. Conservatism takes a balanced approach. Now, of course, Ron Paul is much more of a conservative than anyone else in the race and agrees with me more on the issues than the other candidates, so I will vote for him.
 
Oh, and for what's its worth, Ron Paul is currently the favorite on Intrade.com to win the Ames Straw Poll. Hopefully we can live up to the odds.
 
AuH20 said:
And Obama's approval rating with independents went skyward after he killed OBL. Sad but true.
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That could be just a temporarily blip that will go away when the wars continue. Long way to go.
 
nate895 said:
If you think I have summarily dismissed libertarianism, you neglected to read how many posts I have on these very libertarian forums. I've read anarchist literature, for Pete's sake. I find libertarianism to be distasteful, both intellectually and from a human perspective. It is too simpleton. It's absolute liberty. Conservatism takes a balanced approach. Now, of course, Ron Paul is much more of a conservative than anyone else in the race and agrees with me more on the issues than the other candidates, so I will vote for him.
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Would you mind elaborating? I'm curious.
 
nate895 said:
If you think I have summarily dismissed libertarianism, you neglected to read how many posts I have on these very libertarian forums. I've read anarchist literature, for Pete's sake. I find libertarianism to be distasteful, both intellectually and from a human perspective. It is too simpleton. It's absolute liberty. Conservatism takes a balanced approach. Now, of course, Ron Paul is much more of a conservative than anyone else in the race and agrees with me more on the issues than the other candidates, so I will vote for him.
Click to expand...

The problem I have with libertarianism is that it's completely historically ignorant. The species, through it's various incarnations of trial and error, is smarter than the individual. But as we currently see, the wisdom of the past has been forsaken for the scam-atopia we're currently living in.
 
AuH20 said:
The problem I have with libertarianism is that it's completely historically ignorant. The species, through it's various incarnations of trial and error, is smarter than the individual. But as we currently see, the wisdom of the past has been forsaken for the scam-atopia we're currently living in.
Click to expand...

That is one problem, and the lack of recognition of human nature. People aren't just naturally good. You aren't gonna be able to wave the magic anti-government wand and all of the sudden have "spontaneous order." It almost seems like magic to me.
 
Epic said:
What if neither Mike Huckabee nor Donald
Trump ran and the candidates for President in 2012 were just Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Ron Paul, Tim Pawlenty, and Mitt Romney, who would you vote for?

Michele Bachmann 10%
Newt Gingrich 15%
Sarah Palin 15%
Ron Paul 15%
Tim Pawlenty 9%
Mitt Romney 25%
Someone else/Undecided 11%

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_IA_04191118.pdf

I think this is most recent poll without Huckabee.
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Thanks. That is before the debate and before he had his exploratory committee. I think things will shake out preliminarily in the next few weeks as candidates decide they are, or are not, running.
 
That is one problem, and the lack of recognition of human nature. People aren't just naturally good. You aren't gonna be able to wave the magic anti-government wand and all of the sudden have "spontaneous order." It almost seems like magic to me.
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But by what means do people become good when they are elected?
 
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nate895 said:
That is one problem, and the lack of recognition of human nature. People aren't just naturally good.
Click to expand...

I thought that someone who has been at the forums for so long would realize you're debating a straw man, and we know it, and it's more ridiculous than persuasive.
 
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McBell said:
But by what means do humans become good when they are elected?
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They don't. That's why I'm here and not on Democratic Underground or MittRomneyForums.com (I don't know if that exists, but you get the point). Limited government is the only way to deal with some of the problem. Now, sometimes that government is going to go out of control like it is today, but that does not defeat the idea that we need a limited government. The state, the family, the church, and other institutions all play a role in restraining the passions of men. Two of those are weak today and the other is a monster.
 
nate895 said:
That is one problem, and the lack of recognition of human nature. People aren't just naturally good. You aren't gonna be able to wave the magic anti-government wand and all of the sudden have "spontaneous order." It almost seems like magic to me.
Click to expand...

I don't think many sound minded libertarians believe that humans are good. I think they understand that liberty can only grow from the soil of order.
 
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