Poll: Should grassroots organize the march, or HQ?

[Winston]

I've Co-Chaired some decent sized festivals, and we have more resources than the campaign... they have to focus on PA, Texas, etc... they have a campaign to run, we have a massive movement to run... Ron Paul is but ONE congressman of many running to represent our movement here.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[Deborah K]

It is also my impression that RP was talking about the message and not the campaign.

Is it not possible they both had the same idea? Why the power struggle over the idea?

I didnt read anywhere that strikeforce said the grassroots couldn't it. \

Like I said before.... it's a co operation.

There's no power struggle. This is a debate amongst Ron Paul supporters. I'm trying to get a feel for where people stand.

As I have said countless times, if HQ takes over, we will hand over the reigns without incident. The CAUSE is what is important here.

I have been trying to keep the record straight, however, on how all of this came about. So when someone declares this was Ron Paul's idea so HQ should handle it, I point out that that is not accurate, because this is too important, and many, many of us don't trust HQ anymore - and for good reason.

But in the end, Ron Paul will make the decision and we will abide by it with no hard feelings, only love for the man and the message.

 

[Banana]

Yes, I saw that part about committee and website. I truthfully don't know enough of how idea came about, but would hate to squash it.

Glad to know you contacted HQ and am sure can come up with a plan; as I said before, I'm pretty sure they have a good reason for needing to make it official (perhaps to fund the permit? I don't know.) but see nothing stopping grassroots from expanding.

Power to the people!

 

[mikesown]

HQ, definitely. I think people underestimate what HQ is doing. Often, people complain, "We only got 5% of the vote in a given state, so HQ sucks!" however, the reality is that Paul isn't getting support for reasons outside the campaign's control. My point is that HQ is not completely useless, and has helped out the campaign immeasurably; Paul would not have the support he has today if not for HQ! A lot of people in HQ have significant political experience which cannot be matched by grassroots supporters, and we should take advantage of this.

Grassroots efforts have been great for moneybombs, but moneybombs do not require that much organization(just a website, and a graph).

Think about all the planning that has to go into a march to Washington. It's not "find some speakers and just show up"; you have to get permits, organize hotels for everyone, make sure that people are committed to going, get publicity for the event, not to mention a load of other stuff. Grassroots efforts might be good at promoting the event, but grassroots simply cannot organize an event of this size; it would be impossible for an event of this size to be organized by ANY group without a central "leader."

HQ usually stays out of the way from the grassroots supporters. Sure, RP drops references to moneybombs, but he doesn't go around promoting them vigorously. HQ has chosen to take up the march for a reason: they can make it happen. They would not be pushing this if they did not feel they had the expertise and experience to setup such an event.

In short, let HQ do this. Grassroots supporters can help by suggesting speakers, and I'm sure the RP campaign will take these suggestions into count. Such a large operation is near impossible for grassroots organizers to do a good job of organizing.

 

[Deborah K]

HQ has chosen to take up the march for a reason: .

Really? When? Where did you find that information? Or are you just assuming this.

 

[Kludge]

HQ has a proven record of ineptitude and if MSM effectively spins this negatively, RP won't directly take the heat.

 

[Winston]

A lot of people in HQ have significant political experience

True. But political experience (ie knowing primary rules in different states, crafting policy speeches, positions, etc) does not necessarily mean experience in event planning.

Grassroots efforts have been great for moneybombs, but moneybombs do not require that much organization(just a website, and a graph).

Actually alot more goes into it, and much of it is VERY similar to the march, including setting up an entity and all the legal and finance that goes along with that.

Grassroots efforts might be good at promoting the event, but grassroots simply cannot organize an event of this size

I think you might be underestimating the event planning skills and experience of Ron Paul supporters.

it would be impossible for an event of this size to be organized by ANY group without a central "leader."

That is why you have a planning committee and underneath it you have publicity, legal, finance, logistics, security, hospitality (hotels, dealing with the guest speakers etc), groups etc... I think the sheer scale of the event actually makes it MORE difficult for the limited (and recently scaled down) campaign folks to organize.

I think you are confusing "grass roots" with "disorganized" and that is simply not the case.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Valley Forge here we come!

 

[Technics2000]

I don't know if some people realize exactly the kind of work and money needed for this. This is not the same as organizing a festival for 5-10,000 people, for those of you who think it is the same.

As an example let me use the Million Man March because I think for us to have an impact, we need similar numbers to attend.

The organizers spent about 2 million dollars organizing this event. Management and administrative costs alone came to over half a million dollars. After all that they still ended up in debt by over 60,000 dollars, which I guess isn't too bad seeing as how i've seen higher debts from events with much smaller numbers. Maybe we won't get the same money/attendance but I don't see any reason why we can't with the right planning.

I personally would feel comfortable with either grassroots or hq as long as they hire a head organizer and staff that has proven experience putting together a rally this size. Not a bunch of people who want to use this as a learning experience. If this becomes as large as I hope, all grassroots people should be more than busy organizing charters and recruiting attendees/volunteers in their local areas.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

there needs to be a site so we can centralize behind. Who is leading this thing who can ACTUALLY get it DONE and correctly?

We need a chip in or something like that to pay for specific things AND 100% transparency. If this gets anywhere close to the blimp and some jackoffs trying to make a couple grand off of a good idea then POOF to this plan.

I hope this stays GRASSROOTS and on a volunteer basis. Not a way to get free air fair for this band to fly here or that speaker to fly and stay here. I hope it stays to where people VOLUNTEER and stop trying to profit off of ron paul and this effort.

 

[axiomata]

Grassroots, but we should take advice and support from the campaign.

 

[nodope0695]

I think it should be a shared, cooperative endeavor. There are things HQ can do that we can't, and there are things that can be done by the grassroots that would be practical for HQ. I think HQ should establish a national grassroots liason and put up a website.

 

[FamilyForRonPaul]

I'm not really sure why everyone seems up in arms over this issue. Don't you think this sort of decision should be left up to Dr. Paul himself?

And just my 2 cents, but I would feel more comfortable going to a march that was organized by the Ron Paul campaign. I would not drive over 13 hours to attend a march that was organized by a bunch of people from a forum. No offense to anyone here, but I am a strong Ron Paul supporter and I think this needs to be done by people who have experience in this area. And what about the costs and funding? I will not give money to just anyone who is organizing this. I would, however, donate to the Ron Paul campaign directly for the march. I guess my main point is this: I don't know anyone here from Adam, so I would not drive over 13 hours with my family, only to be possibly stuck in a bad situation.

I have faith in Ron Paul and what he decides to do! One good way would be if Dr. Paul decides to organize it and has grassroots people who can sign up and help to organize it as well. At least that way they are officially "linked" to the campaign, rather than doing their own thing. Otherwise we can end up with many diverse groups of people, each with their own agendas, etc. At least it the campaign organized it, it would be 100% Ron Paul approved, and I will not be worrying about what sort of march it will turn out to be.

And who "thought" of the idea first, really has no bearing on the issue. And I agree with the person who mentioned radical groups wanting to bring guns, etc... Many FAMILIES support Ron Paul, and may be bringing children along. So for their sake especially, this should be a great march to make a point and stand for freedom, but also be peaceful. And since we will be representing Ron Paul with our support, we need to conduct ourselves properly and not shed a negative light on this great revolution!!

My very long 2 cents!

 

[INeedATherapist]

Just to note the current vote:

Grassroots 62 50.00%
HQ 62 50.00%


I agree with the above poster, if grassroots wants to continue to help the march, go to the campaign and work for them on a volunteer basis. Something of this magnitude needs the support of the campaign for legitimacy and a central place for donations to go. It really makes the most sense, and the poll results show that it should be a combined effort.

Let's stop arguing, wait until we hear from Ron, and then we'll start going again! Geez... you people, I haven't been around on the forum for very long but it's a wonder you were able to organize money bombs that broke records!

 

[John of Des Moines]

Somebody in the thread said that the Campaign hasn't pulled off an event with success. How about the June 30th Rally in Des Moines? I'd think that was a success and that was primarily organized by the Campaign. Yes, meetup group members did a lot of the work but took direction from the Campaign with the Campaign listening to and sometimes implementing grassroots suggestions.

And who says there can't be a Rally organized by the Campaign and a march by and of the grassroots?

 

[John of Des Moines]

I'm not really sure why everyone seems up in arms over this issue. Don't you think this sort of decision should be left up to Dr. Paul himself?

And just my 2 cents, but I would feel more comfortable going to a march that was organized by the Ron Paul campaign. I would not drive over 13 hours to attend a march that was organized by a bunch of people from a forum. No offense to anyone here, but I am a strong Ron Paul supporter and I think this needs to be done by people who have experience in this area. And what about the costs and funding? I will not give money to just anyone who is organizing this. I would, however, donate to the Ron Paul campaign directly for the march. I guess my main point is this: I don't know anyone here from Adam, so I would not drive over 13 hours with my family, only to be possibly stuck in a bad situation.

I have faith in Ron Paul and what he decides to do! One good way would be if Dr. Paul decides to organize it and has grassroots people who can sign up and help to organize it as well. At least that way they are officially "linked" to the campaign, rather than doing their own thing. Otherwise we can end up with many diverse groups of people, each with their own agendas, etc. At least it the campaign organized it, it would be 100% Ron Paul approved, and I will not be worrying about what sort of march it will turn out to be.

And who "thought" of the idea first, really has no bearing on the issue. And I agree with the person who mentioned radical groups wanting to bring guns, etc... Many FAMILIES support Ron Paul, and may be bringing children along. So for their sake especially, this should be a great march to make a point and stand for freedom, but also be peaceful. And since we will be representing Ron Paul with our support, we need to conduct ourselves properly and not shed a negative light on this great revolution!!

My very long 2 cents!

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Billy Budd]

This is the brainchild of the grassroots. It should stay with us. Especially given the history of how HQ handles things.

I presume if HQ hijacks this event, that we will merge our efforts with them, not have a separate march.

Also, the grassroots has no problem with Ron Paul planning this. The problem lies with HQ planning it.

As I stated, I don't have a problem at all with working with HQ on this, I just don't think it's a wise move for them to take it over. NOT Ron Paul - but HQ! I think their time is better spent putting kick-butt ads together that compare Ron Paul to McCain.

The website, btw, was up and running 3 days before Ron Paul made his "Go the Distance" speech.

If you look through my posts, you'll find one on how this all began.

As I have said countless times, if HQ takes over, we will hand over the reigns without incident. The CAUSE is what is important here.

I point out that that is not accurate, because this is too important, and many, many of us don't trust HQ anymore - and for good reason.

Yikes, Ron Paul and the inept HQ folks hijacking the idea and the march. Deborah K, please tell me why anyone from HQ would want to work with you at this point?

Your shrill and aggressive solicitation and the constant beating of the HQ sucks drum makes me suspect and give me bad vibes. What are you competing for?

Your "we thought of it first" meme is negative and self serving and not necessarily true.

HQ is made of fellow human beings and why some of us may not have liked some of the results we've seen (though most of us don't have a clue what HQ does or doesn't do), doesn't mean they are inept. In the least they deserve better than your ad hominem remarks.

What have you got to show besides a ugly website and a promise of having the "pros" to pull it off? Are you folks looking to start an event company after the raging success?

Since it's been about a week or more since two or more people agreed with any one thing on this forum, I'm all for HQ setting up the structure and let the rest of us worry about showing up. If someone wants to volunteer to help that's all the better.

You're not going to be able to create the type of magic of the money bombs by claiming authority status and "allowing" people to be in the loop. And nothing personal, but I don't find your demeanor the least bit motivating.

I also agree with another poster who is hesitant to send anymore money to self promoters.

 

[affa]

There's a really simple answer here:

Both should cooperate.

But really, there's not much point on debating it on this forum. There are only so many people capable and willing to organize an event of this size. Some are grassroots, some are staff. They should work together.

 

[Deborah K]

This is the brainchild of the grassroots. It should stay with us. Especially given the history of how HQ handles things.

I presume if HQ hijacks this event, that we will merge our efforts with them, not have a separate march.

Also, the grassroots has no problem with Ron Paul planning this. The problem lies with HQ planning it.

As I stated, I don't have a problem at all with working with HQ on this, I just don't think it's a wise move for them to take it over. NOT Ron Paul - but HQ! I think their time is better spent putting kick-butt ads together that compare Ron Paul to McCain.

The website, btw, was up and running 3 days before Ron Paul made his "Go the Distance" speech.

If you look through my posts, you'll find one on how this all began.

As I have said countless times, if HQ takes over, we will hand over the reigns without incident. The CAUSE is what is important here.

I point out that that is not accurate, because this is too important, and many, many of us don't trust HQ anymore - and for good reason.

Yikes, Ron Paul and the inept HQ folks hijacking the idea and the march. Deborah K, please tell me why anyone from HQ would want to work with you at this point?

Your shrill and aggressive solicitation and the constant beating of the HQ sucks drum makes me suspect and give me bad vibes. What are you competing for?

Your "we thought of it first" meme is negative and self serving and not necessarily true.

HQ is made of fellow human beings and why some of us may not have liked some of the results we've seen (though most of us don't have a clue what HQ does or doesn't do), doesn't mean they are inept. In the least they deserve better than your ad hominem remarks.

What have you got to show besides a ugly website and a promise of having the "pros" to pull it off? Are you folks looking to start an event company after the raging success?

Since it's been about a week or more since two or more people agreed with any one thing on this forum, I'm all for HQ setting up the structure and let the rest of us worry about showing up. If someone wants to volunteer to help that's all the better.

You're not going to be able to create the type of magic of the money bombs by claiming authority status and "allowing" people to be in the loop. And nothing personal, but I don't find your demeanor the least bit motivating.

I also agree with another poster who is hesitant to send anymore money to self promoters.

You just made this very personal. You just pick and choose from my quotes and spin a negative take on all of this. How disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. If you had bothered to read everything I've written on this you would be pretty clear that this isn't about egos, it's about passion. And again, <sigh> collaboration with HQ is the ideal!! The concern is them taking this over. It is a legitimate concern. My bringing up the fact that the idea originated from the Northern Virginia Patriots, of whom I have no affiliation, is simply to keep the record straight and to try and quell the argument that "Ron Paul thought of it so HQ should have control".

I am within my rights to complain about HQ. It is not as though they don't deserve criticism. If you want to blindly follow yet another bureaucratic entity, go for it. It flies in the face of one of Ron Paul's dictums regarding giving people the freedom to do their job. And since the grassroots DID think of this, then please explain to me how wishing to take the reigns on this while working with HQ on it is self-serving?!

Those of us who are in the planning stages of this simply stepped up to the plate. Anyone else could have done the same and still can. Again, if you had considered all my posts and not just cherry-picked the ones that give you a reason to sling insults, you would know that everyone is invited to join in on the conference calls and volunteer their talents, etc.

Bryan and Ray (The Virginia Patriots) are talk show hosts on Ron Paul radio. They love this cause and they love Ron Paul and they are willing to do whatever it takes to bring his message to the people. Bryan deserves the credit for thinking of this. These are true patriots who love their country. Many professional people have come forward to help with this.

I find your comments insulting and condescending and without merrit. You can twist this into whatever caustic motivation you choose. I don't see you doing anything productive. Your focus seems to be on tearing down those of us trying to make a difference.


FOR THE RECORD! I BELIEVE GRASSROOTS AND HQ SHOULD COLLABORATE! I AM AGAINST HQ TAKING CONTROL! IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU, BILLY BUDD?

 

[Revolution9]

you'll be missed. step up and plan it, or step back and deal with what you get. welcome to the market.

Well are you all high faluting or what. When RP puts out the date and place and other details yer dick is gonna be smack flat into the dirt and i will smile large. I take my marching order from Ron Paul.

HTH
Randy