Police: Pa. couple hid 5 children from society

[2young2vote]

If nothing had happened the children would have grown up and continued living there outside society and nobody would have known. I don't see a problem with what she did.

 

[pcosmar]

Is Not Allowed

very sad all around.

 

[tropicangela]

Gross said the children were home-schooled, but Ward said he could find no evidence of it. Parents of home-schooled children are required by law to register with the district in which they live, provide evidence of immunizations and follow approved curricula.

Gross said Bowers has studied more than 70 religions and adheres to a faith related to Islam.

"She essentially doesn't show her face, except to her husband," Gross said. He said the family opposes vaccinations "based on some beliefs about impurity and pricks of the skin."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12260726&page=2

 

[Kludge]

GUILTY! Sentenced to prison.

That's so awful. Doesn't anyone understand that things can't get better with the primary caretaker being held? It costs the government scarce resources to do this, now the woman will resent the government even more, her kids probably will, too - and the family's going to go through a lot of strain, possibly breaking up and really messing up the kids' lives.

I was watching an early episode of a show called "Hoarders" where they look at people with chronic disorganization and strong emotional attachment to everything they collect so they have a lot of difficulty throwing it away. There was an older grandparent (who I'm not at all convinced was a true "hoarder" as many of the people on the show are) with a yard with a bunch of scrap metal in it. The metal prices were very low at the time and he wanted to use the proceeds of the metal sales to pay for his grandchildrens' education so they and their parents wouldn't have to worry about it so much. His neighbors complained to the police and he was sentenced to 5 days in jail. He seemed to become deeply resentful and continued collecting scrap after leaving. When the Hoarders crew (including a psychologist and the man's kids) came in, the man faces 90 days in jail for not clearing out the scrap on his property. At this point, he was extremely resentful toward the gov't and threatened to blow his brains out if he had to sell his scrap at 1/10 of the price he could have gotten - even when metal prices were relatively low when the show was being filmed. The crew told him the only reasonable way forward was to offer scrap dealers the whole lot to buy and haul. He was offered that 1/10 of what it was worth and was shocked and tearful because this was going to produce the wealth for his kids' higher education.

But just think about what the gov't was doing in that situation. What could they have been thinking? What would 90 days in jail solve? The scrap will still be there and the man will be way more resentful and probably enter a raging depression - and you've put a non-violent man filling his yard with junk for his grandchildren. Because he had to get rid of his scrap that day or face jail, he ended up selling a small amount for a relatively low sum of money -- at enough of a loss in future value that if he continued selling metals at that rate, would probably go from giving a couple grandkids a paid-for tuition to paying for maybe two years' tuition for one kid.

These are the kinds of incredible stupid and detrimental solutions which are implemented when government - first of all, claims control over peoples' property when no aggression is taking place - and when the justice system exists only for punitive justice and not reform - not productive solutions, but just punishing people who resist their unjust rules. The people who use the justice system for punishment are causing tremendous harm instead of finding solutions which move us forward. Fines, probation, and community service should always be an option for non-violent crimes if the crimes must exist at all.

 

[madfoot]

Gross said the children were home-schooled, but Ward said he could find no evidence of it. Parents of home-schooled children are required by law to register with the district in which they live, provide evidence of immunizations and follow approved curricula.

Gross said Bowers has studied more than 70 religions and adheres to a faith related to Islam.

"She essentially doesn't show her face, except to her husband," Gross said. He said the family opposes vaccinations "based on some beliefs about impurity and pricks of the skin."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12260726&page=2

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between living off the grid and denying your kids health care and an education. The way these kids were raised does not sound normal. Did they have friends? Did they go outside?

 

[Teaser Rate]

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between living off the grid and denying your kids health care and an education. The way these kids were raised does not sound normal. Did they have friends? Did they go outside?

See, your rep is in the negatives because you don't understand the basic fact that keeping government out of people's lives is far more important than having a way to help children who are abused by their parents and/or denied life-saving medical care due to ideological reasons.

 

[iGGz]

The way these kids were raised does not sound normal.

Normal ... lol

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Translation: We are putting her in jail. We don't know why, but that's what we do, and we have to do our "job".

Before sentencing, Renn said that while Bowers "was living quite a number of years outside of society, she apparently did it crime free."

Renn said he needed to balance a number of "interests" in fashioning a sentence. He said society has an interest to make sure the crimes do not go unpunished.

"She does not pose a danger to society," he said. "Unfortunately, we can't say the same for her own children."

He said while he predicted there was little likelihood of her repeating this type of offense, "we believe there is a need for incarceration."

 

[Slutter McGee]

I don't like CPS. But these rare cases of actual child neglect are why we have them around. I have no issue with the actions the state took. My problem is that the state uses legitimate situations like these to justify its continual harassment of good parents who raise raise their children slightly different that societal norms.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

 

[enjerth]

They lived outside society, hidden from the world in a squalid row house with no heat, electricity or running water. They had no birth certificates, no schooling, no immunizations or evidence of medical care _ nothing whatsoever to prove their existence.

So, basically Amish? Is CPS going to get into the business of raiding Amish homes now?

 

[libertybrewcity]

they probably locked them in a basement or something. if that is the case, more power to CPS

 

[pcosmar]

I see this thread is bringing out the Statists.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I see this thread is bringing out the Statists.

It's always disappointing when that happens.

 

[QueenB4Liberty]

they probably locked them in a basement or something. if that is the case, more power to CPS

this has got to be sarcasm.

 

[libertybrewcity]

If a local community wants to have some form of child protective services, then they should be able to. I don't support it, but they can if they want.

 

[tropicangela]

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between living off the grid and denying your kids health care and an education. The way these kids were raised does not sound normal. Did they have friends? Did they go outside?

Did the children have medical problems when they were hunted down and stolen? The children knew how to grow a garden and make their own food, and they enjoyed it and miss doing that with their mother. How many can sustain themselves who attend state schools?

 

[enjerth]

If a local community wants to have some form of child protective services, then they should be able to. I don't support it, but they can if they want.

Group rights don't trump individual rights.

If you don't personally have the right to come into my house, by yourself, and take my children away from me because you're concerned that I'm not doing a good enough job as a parent, then neither does a community.

 

[pcosmar]

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...en-may-soon-leave/j2Inpr4On0KXiX6hM6YJoQ.cspx
York woman who hid her children may soon leave jail

“By wanting to protect the children so much it caused them the harm of not being socialized,” commented her attorney, Ron Gross, “but at the end of it, according to Children and Youth these kids are nice, polite so obviously she did something right hiding them underground.”

She ran away and was declared dead. She lived free for 16 years.

She almost got away with Freedom.

 

[jmdrake]

Did the children have medical problems when they were hunted down and stolen? The children knew how to grow a garden and make their own food, and they enjoyed it and miss doing that with their mother. How many can sustain themselves who attend state schools?

Shhhh..... You're attacking statist paranoia with logic an reason. You will be reported to CPS.

 

[jmdrake]

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between living off the grid and denying your kids health care and an education. The way these kids were raised does not sound normal. Did they have friends? Did they go outside?

See, your rep is in the negatives because you don't understand the basic fact that keeping government out of people's lives is far more important than having a way to help children who are abused by their parents and/or denied life-saving medical care due to ideological reasons.

Let's see. I dare you to walk through any government funded housing project, do a survey and find out many children getting government care from cradle to grave don't have any medical problems and are testing a government approved educational levels. I double dare you. And "life saving medical care"? Give me a break! You've not given any evidence that any of child having any life threatening condition. As someone else pointed out, these sounded like inner city Amish. Are you ready to turn the Amish into the CPS?