Please convince me of statism!

[Anti Federalist]

I would have respected him a lot more if he would have kept his mouth shut about it and helped to get Ron Paul elected. Because then, we would be on a path to make sure that we didn't have a repeat of what happened to Guerena.

I'm not sure what electing Ron Paul to the postion of POTUS would effect at the local police level.

 

[pcosmar]

I would have respected him a lot more if he would have kept his mouth shut about it and helped to get Ron Paul elected. Because then, we would be on a path to make sure that we didn't have a repeat of what happened to Guerena.

It is apparent from both his statements and the reaction that the machine politics is still firmly opposed to Ron Paul, and to Liberty at all. I have no doubt they would have negated any effect from him in favor of Ron.

I'm not sure what electing Ron Paul to the postion of POTUS would effect at the local police level.

Well that is yet to be seen, But I can extrapolate several changes.
The absence of Government funds and the disappearance of a few agencies for a start.
The end of Fusion Centers and the SPLC's influence. (training and oversight)
The very likely END of the War on Drugs.
A presidential respect for the 2nd amendment. (and likely changes in gun law)

Any or all of these would have a distinct affect.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

It is apparent from both his statements and the reaction that the machine politics is still firmly opposed to Ron Paul, and to Liberty at all. I have no doubt they would have negated any effect from him in favor of Ron.



Well that is yet to be seen, But I can extrapolate several changes.
The absence of Government funds and the disappearance of a few agencies for a start.
The end of Fusion Centers and the SPLC's influence. (training and oversight)
The very likely END of the War on Drugs.
A presidential respect for the 2nd amendment. (and likely changes in gun law)

Any or all of these would have a distinct affect.

How can the POTUS affect the bolded? Do you mean by putting pressure on the legislature and the various states to change unfriendly state gun laws?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Well that is yet to be seen, But I can extrapolate several changes.
The absence of Government funds and the disappearance of a few agencies for a start.
The end of Fusion Centers and the SPLC's influence. (training and oversight)
The very likely END of the War on Drugs.
A presidential respect for the 2nd amendment. (and likely changes in gun law)

Any or all of these would have a distinct affect.

True enough.

 

[pcosmar]

How can the POTUS affect the bolded? Do you mean by putting pressure on the legislature and the various states to change unfriendly state gun laws?

(and likely changes in gun law)

Eliminating the ATF and Federal Firearms licenses.
By pardoning ALL NON crime Gun Offenses. (possession, transportation, sales)

And beyond that pushing for repeal of the GCA's from 1934 on.
Supporting and encouraging the Constitutional Militia.

 

[LibertyEagle]

It is apparent from both his statements and the reaction that the machine politics is still firmly opposed to Ron Paul, and to Liberty at all. I have no doubt they would have negated any effect from him in favor of Ron.

Is this news to you? That is exactly why we were asked to "become" the Republican party and get positioned the best that we could. This was never going to be a cake walk. But, these guys flushed their gains down the proverbial toilet for the pleasure of spouting off on one issue that would have absolutely no impact on what had happened. It was shortsighted and extremely foolish.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Geez guys, sometimes when I read what you post it sounds like you don't believe Ron Paul has a shot in hell.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

(and likely changes in gun law)

Eliminating the ATF and Federal Firearms licenses.
By pardoning ALL NON crime Gun Offenses. (possession, transportation, sales)

And beyond that pushing for repeal of the GCA's from 1934 on.
Supporting and encouraging the Constitutional Militia.

I didn't know the POTUS had the power to do that (underlined above). I could've sworn that was congress' job. I learn something new from RPFs every day. Thanks!

 

[pcosmar]

Geez guys, sometimes when I read what you post it sounds like you don't believe Ron Paul has a shot in hell.

I do believe he has a chance, But it is slim. And he will only get the nomination begrudgingly if at all.

We can get a seat at the table in some places. But not the head of the table,, at least not until a lot of old guard dies off. (20 or 30 years). I don't expect much from the GOP.

 

[pcosmar]

I didn't know the POTUS had the power to do that (underlined above). I could've sworn that was congress' job. I learn something new from RPFs every day. Thanks!

I'm not sure either. But he has spoken of eliminating agencies.
Were they created by congress? or by the stroke of a pen?

I do know he opposes them, and plans to eliminate them.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I live in a pretty "Republican" area. The sort of place where people get offended when a Democratic president or Congress spends too much money, but nary a peep is heard when a Republican does. The sort of place where a lot of people think teh mooslims hate us for our freedomz.

My local GOP is NOT going to be converted, nor co-opted. I have better luck with left-leaning folks around here.

I'm not going to sit here and make presumptions about the circumstances Miller was working in. He took a stand on an issue that the rest of the members in his local organization SHOULD BE PROUD OF, and if they're not TO HELL WITH THEM. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as I well know... and the longer a person lies in bed with a bunch of vipers, the more likely he ends up bit. It's entirely likely that Miller scored points with independents and left-ish folks for taking his stand. Some of us don't like compromising our principles just so we don't offend the local GOP.

And pardon me but I'm getting a little tired of some of the preaching that goes on around here... some of you folks don't know what it's like on the ground in some of our counties and districts, so spouting off and calling people morons and/or decreeing that certain statements by some Ron Paul supporters do damage to the campaign is a whole lot of self-importance and little else in my book.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Valid points.

I'm really concerned about the direction this is going.

It's bad enough to suggest that the only way to "win" is to sit on your hands, smile politely and shut up about critical issues.

The vibe I'm catching now is: it's not just enough to do that, you had better be prepared to lie about what you think.

I live in a pretty "Republican" area. The sort of place where people get offended when a Democratic president or Congress spends too much money, but nary a peep is heard when a Republican does. The sort of place where a lot of people think teh mooslims hate us for our freedomz.

My local GOP is NOT going to be converted, nor co-opted. I have better luck with left-leaning folks around here.

I'm not going to sit here and make presumptions about the circumstances Miller was working in. He took a stand on an issue that the rest of the members in his local organization SHOULD BE PROUD OF, and if they're not TO HELL WITH THEM. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as I well know... and the longer a person lies in bed with a bunch of vipers, the more likely he ends up bit. It's entirely likely that Miller scored points with independents and left-ish folks for taking his stand. Some of us don't like compromising our principles just so we don't offend the local GOP.

And pardon me but I'm getting a little tired of some of the preaching that goes on around here... some of you folks don't know what it's like on the ground in some of our counties and districts, so spouting off and calling people morons and/or decreeing that certain statements by some Ron Paul supporters do damage to the campaign is a whole lot of self-importance and little else in my book.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Valid points.

I'm really concerned about the direction this is going.

It's bad enough to suggest that the only way to "win" is to sit on your hands, smile politely and shut up about critical issues.

The vibe I'm catching now is: it's not just enough to do that, you had better be prepared to lie about what you think.

I think that's exactly the suggestion. That sort of thing leads one down some pretty awful roads.

Jose Guerena was murdered, in cold blood, in his home by the state. There is no way around that fact. To suggest that a person should keep from speaking out against that sort of thing is reprehensible, in my opinion.

Yeah, count me out of that sort of thing. If the local GOP want to defend cops who gun down innocent people, then guess what? I'm calling those people out. At what point are we supposed to speak up, if not when innocent people are murdered?

Disgusting...

 

[mport1]

What are your arguments for the state as defined above?

There are none. Good job, looks like you have things figured out just fine

 

[Danke]

Why was Conza banned...again?

 

[Conza88]

Why was Conza banned...again?

Way too many anti-state threads of mine all over the 'new posts' section. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. Seriously though, no reason was given. And it seems like they don't think they even need to . I believe someone asked for a specific quotation / reference point and misdirection was provided instead.

I'd just like to also point out - noone has yet made an argument for the state, to justify it's existence. I am led to believe that it is impossible, yes?

The fact that you have no arguments - means you then move onto the question of strategy... which is completely irrelevant. That discussion is something that can be had elsewhere if it is so wished.

However, this thread is related specifically to justification of the state.

I want the moderators to delete every single post in here that is a RED HERRING and talks about strategy... pointlessly so and make a new thread. Do your job thanks.

 

[Jake Ralston]

Why was Conza banned...again?

Probably because he is a troll that relies on divide and conquer tactics to create problems within a forum that is working overtime to get a certain man elected as Head of the State. Yes, Head of the STATE.

I for one have already debunked Conza88 by simply and thoroughly refusing to accept his philosophical ideals. Conza88 knows that no matter how hard he tries, I will never accept Anarchy or Voluntaryism. Conza88 knows that it's not a matter of logic, morality, or who is right and who is wrong. It's a matter of my own personal lifestyle that I choose to support. And best of all, he's not American, nor even physically in America, so he can't try the tired fallacy of claiming that I "suppress" him with my support of the state.

Anyways, who goes to McDonald's and demands they stop serving burgers? Welcome to Conza88's world ladies and gentlemen.

It's okay though, one of these days he will realize that his efforts are in vain. I mean imagine if he withdrew all the effort towards the unnattainable Utopian Anarchy and put it towards something worthwhile like, oh I don't know, helping Ron Paul get elected?

 

[Jake Ralston]

I want the moderators to delete every single post in here that is a RED HERRING

RED HERRING: "Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to the rhetorical or literary tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance."

CONZA88 you are the definition of a Red Herring. Because the "item of significance" here is trying to get Ron Paul supported and elected. Something you know nothing about because you resort to divide and conquer tactics, diverting attention to ANARCHY (chaos) and do nothing to contribute to the significance of Ron Paul.

 

[Conza88]

Probably because he is a troll that relies on divide and conquer tactics to create problems within a forum that is working overtime to get a certain man elected as Head of the State. Yes, Head of the STATE.

I for one have already debunked Conza88 by simply and thoroughly refusing to accept his philosophical ideals. Conza88 knows that no matter how hard he tries, I will never accept Anarchy or Voluntaryism. Conza88 knows that it's not a matter of logic, morality, or who is right and who is wrong. It's a matter of my own personal lifestyle that I choose to support. And best of all, he's not American, nor even physically in America, so he can't try the tired fallacy of claiming that I "suppress" him with my support of the state.

Anyways, who goes to McDonald's and demands they stop serving burgers? Welcome to Conza88's world ladies and gentlemen.

It's okay though, one of these days he will realize that his efforts are in vain. I mean imagine if he withdrew all the effort towards the unnattainable Utopian Anarchy and put it towards something worthwhile like, oh I don't know, helping Ron Paul get elected?

A "troll" that has done more for the liberty movement ala Ron Paul, than you have. How's that make you feel? If I'm a troll, then what on earth does that make you?

No doubt this is merely an attempt to try get a rise out of me, in the hopes of me providing ya'll with an excuse so I can get banned again - and it seem "justified". Really, whose the troll now? Your last two posts SCREAM it bro . Will the mods do anything, of course not.

No-one has said Ron Paul supports anarchy as YOU define it [chaos], or how Mises defines it. NO-ONE HERE EVEN USES THE WORD, THE MINARCHIST TROLLS are the ones who cannot let it go.. it's delusional.

Ron Paul -> his own words; he supports self-government over a return to the constitution. It is his end goal.

His words, his words, his words, his words, in context, in context... how do you interpret that? What on earth do you think it means? lmao!

Ron Paul: "government planning leads to chaos"

You guys are going to die, and you're still retain your cognitive dissonance.. stuck in a world of delusional self contradictions. Pathetic.

But really... just another bs red herring...

WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE STATE? Do you even have one?!

 

[Jake Ralston]

You guys are going to die, and you're still retain your cognitive dissonance.. stuck in a world of delusional self contradictions. Pathetic.

Silence troll!

Your fallacy-bound, argumentative attempts at entrapment are easily seen from far away. You are the self-embodyment of a red-herring.

Take your philosophical ideals and spread them like cancer in your own country. You are not one of us.

I will never accept your foolish attempts of Utopia. I will be harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard!