Please convince me of statism!

Hi statists! Address the topic or admit that you cannot.

For your information, your continued efforts to make this thread about personalities rather than addressing the topic is as transparent as Saran-wrap, and the only people buying it are the likes of yourselves.

If I were you, I'd bow out and stop revealing my ignorance...
 
Jake Ralston said:
Yea but I don't think reality and Anarchy have a very good relationship with each other.
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That depends on what you mean by anarchy.

If anarchy means that there do not exist any people on earth who have a special right to rule over other people without their consent, then anarchy and reality are on quite good terms, since, by that definition, anarchy is simply what the world truly is.
 
A Son of Liberty said:
If I were you, I'd bow out and stop revealing my ignorance...
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Indeed we are trying.

If you believe anarchy is the right way to achieve liberty, then why are you in defensive mode rather than marketing mode. For example, why not buy a full page ad in the New York Times stating:

Anarchists Wanted
As anarchists we want to abolish the state. We want the U.S. Constitution of No Authority to be burned ... never to be resurrected. Anarchists will work to destroy the State of Utah and all the rest of the 50 States of America. Join our movement today!

Can you get a big enough chip-in to do that, Son?
 
lol

Travlyr, do you have an answer to the OP? A logically consistent and principled argument in favor of the state? If not, please say so, then bow out of the thread. Otherwise, you are trolling.
 
erowe1 said:
Before I click, I'm saying in my head, "Please don't be that silly line about keeping deeds at the county courthouse."

Edit: Nope. At least you were honest here.
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I've always been honest. There is no post on this forum or any written piece in the last 40 years where I have been dishonest. I have been wrong plenty of times... but never dishonest.
 
acptulsa said:
Ah, Conza. How wonderful to have you back just in time for you to piss off primary voters.

It seems to me that you of all people would understand that if you want to limit the state, you have to first establish a state with defined limits. This codified the limitations of the state into law, philosophy and national definition of character. Without these things, any charlaitan who can gain the confidence of the people can create a state around himself which gives him or her unlimited power. Just like James Jones of Jonestown. Just like Idi Amin Dada. Just as has happened in the really really world time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. And you can't argue logically against it, because there's no logical reason for it. All you can do is acknowledge that human nature abhors a vacuum, and so this has happened time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

The U.S. Constitution has been a major speed bump in the road to tyranny for two hundred years. No nation has rushed toward tyranny more slowly in our lifetimes than the one with the U.S. Constitution. And we and Ron Paul are poised to use the U.S. Constitution to set back the cause of tyranny two hundred years--right now. Which would certainly be better than letting charismatic psychopaths do away with this Constitution, this philosophy, this speed bump in the road to tyranny as has been done around the world time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

So, point to Somalia and tell us again all about how they were better off than us--for about five minutes. I'll be here--yawning.

Nothing has done more to codify and preserve semi-ancapism in the world than the United States Constitution. Nothing. Anywhere. Ever. So excuse me while I try to preserve, protect and defend it. With or without your help.

What do you say, Jake? Am I in a trap?
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Good post. The Constitution is quite flawed, and does not go nearly so far as I would like, but it actually is about the best bulwark that has ever stood against tyranny. Many here will invariably point to all the ways in which the Constitution has been violated and broken down such that the State has grown anyway, and they have a point; but what they are missing is that all of these expansions of government would have happened anyway without the Constitution, and in fact would have been far more swift and severe were it not there impeding them. The Constitution has been on our side in most every "big-government-versus-small-government" conflict which has come up since the 1780s, such that the supporters of big government have had to fight tooth and nail for most every inch of power they have usurped, and have sometimes had it taken back from them.

Under Bush, what was the popular unifying rallying point against the PATRIOT Act, indefinite detention, etc.? It was the Constitution. What, now, is the unifying rallying point against ObamaCare, bail-outs and stimulus packages and everything else the current president is doing to expand the State? It is the Constitution. Have you ever, in your lifetime, heard the Constitution used as a rallying point for a pro-government-growth policy? Certainly not; at best, the expansionists will try to squeeze out some interpretation whereby their usurpation is "acceptable" under the Constitution- even they don't try to argue that the Constitution mandates it. The Constitution is a stumbling block for big government, and it is about the best there has ever been in that regard.

It is true that in a time of perceived crisis, the law will often go by the wayside in the name of self-preservation, but note that it was because of the Constitution that the Alien and Sedition Acts were subsequently repealed under Jefferson, the dictatorial role of the presidency was (at least temporarily) revoked after the Civil War, Wilson's power grabs were repealed under Harding, and even FDR, the biggest usurper of all, was, at times, significantly impeded in his plans by the Constitution. The Constitution is an obstacle for usurpers to surmount, and though some of them have done so, they have been slowed and sometimes even ultimately turned back in the process.

Let us imagine that the State is like a cancer. Now, it may be the case that one would be best off with absolutely no cancer cells in his or her body, but, in lieu of a cure for said disease, it seems quite wise to me to focus on limiting it, stopping it from spreading, and keeping one's tumors small and manageable as possible; in fact, if this is done well enough, one can achieve a state which does strongly resemble that of a cancer-free individual. So, as long as we have this cancer, is it not wise to focus on fighting its spread, trying to contain and shrink it where it already exists?
 
MaxPower said:
Good post. The Constitution is quite flawed, and does not go nearly so far as I would like, but it actually is about the best bulwark that has ever stood against tyranny. Many here will invariably point to all the ways in which the Constitution has been violated and broken down such that the State has grown anyway, and they have a point; but what they are missing is that all of these expansions of government would have happened anyway without the Constitution, and in fact would have been far more swift and severe were it not there impeding them. The Constitution has been on our side in most every "big-government-versus-small-government" conflict which has come up since the 1780s, such that the supporters of big government have had to fight tooth and nail for most every inch of power they have usurped, and have sometimes had it taken back from them.
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Ahhh, noo.... What part of the US Constitution increasing the size of government is not understood? The articles of confederation...?

Everything that follows is irrelevant. The US Constitution increased the size of the state. It made EVERYTHING afterwards possible. To say otherwise is to completely ignore it's origin.
 
A Son of Liberty said:
Hi statists! Address the topic or admit that you cannot.

.
Click to expand...

The issue has been addressed numerous times with much efficacy, elucidation and erudite commentary. The problem is the libertine reprobates inhabiting the dungeons of anarchic philosophy have decided to promptly ignore those, revert to their brand of political psychobabble and claim no idea or philosophy has breached the walls of their sandcastle in the surf. Entirely dishonest..but what do you expect from anarchist trollers who just cannot shut up about their fascination with their mental masturbatory diatribe that is entirely incapable of being implemented to the good of any community without the integration of some other form of political philosophy whose environs and methods would resemble a state, which they claim is psychopathic and violent. However, it appears that anarchists as tools of the central bankers are the ones whose implementation of violence is psychopathic as they do not care about the innocent inflicted upon by their actions. (see the London riots for example and all those burnt out of their apartments/homes by the anarchists torching the businesses below) Apparently anybody who does not support the community and society <snark>of the anarchists state is a psychopath under their definition by rote and verse.

I am hardly impressed with this gaggle of paltroons and their boobocracy driven paradigms.

Rev9
 
Conza88 said:
Ahhh, noo.... What part of the US Constitution increasing the size of government is not understood? The articles of confederation...?

Everything that follows is irrelevant. The US Constitution increased the size of the state. It made EVERYTHING afterwards possible. To say otherwise is to completely ignore it's origin.
Click to expand...

This answer is proof positive of why you guys fail so hard yet like the garbage truck running at Trinity in The Matrix you drive right into the brick wall whilst thinking yer taking out yer target. But don't worry Conza..one of your crew will be here to scrape you from the brick wall you hit and continue this line of horseshit as though you have never had umpteen mishaps on your route to pure failure through lack of proper thought experiment revolving around the actual way in which the world works, with actual real people doing real things and living real lives.

Yer Pal
Rev9
 
Revolution9 said:
The issue has been addressed numerous times with much efficacy, elucidation and erudite commentary. The problem is the libertine reprobates inhabiting the dungeons of anarchic philosophy have decided to promptly ignore those, revert to their brand of political psychobabble and claim no idea or philosophy has breached the walls of their sandcastle in the surf. Entirely dishonest..but what do you expect from anarchist trollers who just cannot shut up about their fascination with their mental masturbatory diatribe that is entirely incapable of being implemented to the good of any community without the integration of some other form of political philosophy whose environs and methods would resemble a state, which they claim is psychopathic and violent. However, it appears that anarchists as tools of the central bankers are the ones whose implementation of violence is psychopathic as they do not care about the innocent inflicted upon by their actions. (see the London riots for example and all those burnt out of their apartments/homes by the anarchists torching the businesses below) Apparently anybody who does not support the community and society <snark>of the anarchists state is a psychopath under their definition by rote and verse.

I am hardly impressed with this gaggle of paltroons and their boobocracy driven paradigms.

Rev9
Click to expand...

So I'll take that as a no, then. Good enough. You've made your views known. Seems like at this point, you can leave the thread and let the adults handle the discussion from here.

...it's like having a discussion with a thesaurus... :rolleyes:
 
Revolution9 said:
This answer is proof positive of why you guys fail so hard yet like the garbage truck running at Trinity in The Matrix you drive right into the brick wall whilst thinking yer taking out yer target. But don't worry Conza..one of your crew will be here to scrape you from the brick wall you hit and continue this line of horseshit as though you have never had umpteen mishaps on your route to pure failure through lack of proper thought experiment revolving around the actual way in which the world works, with actual real people doing real things and living real lives.

Yer Pal
Rev9
Click to expand...

Don't you all just love the violent imagery the likes of this guy uses? Seems like he can't make a sound point, unless it has to do with shooting someone, kickin' some butt, or driving a garbage truck through someone. Grr... I'm an internet tough guy! RAWR! Watch out while I lay the smack down! <RAGE!!11!>
 
Revolution9 said:
The issue has been addressed numerous times with much efficacy, elucidation and erudite commentary. The problem is the libertine reprobates inhabiting the dungeons of anarchic philosophy have decided to promptly ignore those, revert to their brand of political psychobabble and claim no idea or philosophy has breached the walls of their sandcastle in the surf. Entirely dishonest..but what do you expect from anarchist trollers who just cannot shut up about their fascination with their mental masturbatory diatribe that is entirely incapable of being implemented to the good of any community without the integration of some other form of political philosophy whose environs and methods would resemble a state, which they claim is psychopathic and violent. However, it appears that anarchists as tools of the central bankers are the ones whose implementation of violence is psychopathic as they do not care about the innocent inflicted upon by their actions. (see the London riots for example and all those burnt out of their apartments/homes by the anarchists torching the businesses below) Apparently anybody who does not support the community and society <snark>of the anarchists state is a psychopath under their definition by rote and verse.

I am hardly impressed with this gaggle of paltroons and their boobocracy driven paradigms.

Rev9
Click to expand...
This is exactly what is going on here in these threads.
 
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