Phony ‘Houla Massacre’: How Media Manipulates Public Opinion For Regime Change in Syria

That's unbelievable, I'm one of the few Arabs here who actually knows the area to speak about it but I'm too religiously partisan?

I don't know that. I have no idea who you are,, or why you are here.

I have no Idea if you are CIA, Mossad or just a shit stirrer.

I do know better than to believe the shit on the MSM. And whatever they are telling me is very likely not the truth or only a part of it intended to sell another bullshit lie.

:(
 
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Hey I'm not saying anyone should trust me, that's why I posted raw videos illustrating my point and anything I said can be fact checked.
 
That's unbelievable, I'm one of the few Arabs here who actually knows the area to speak about it but I'm too religiously partisan?

I've read your posts, and many of them have ridiculous little things in them about silly religious differences, that only a religious partisan would care about. I was quite shocked, because I was agreeing with you on some of these threads... ...and then, bam, out of nowhere you say something ridiculous.

Furthermore, every muslim ex-pat I have met came to America far more for economic reasons than political reasons, which makes me strongly question their allegiance to their own people.

In that video I posted no. My point of posting it was to say a CLEAR massacre did occur, but there are many videos that do implicate Asad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKQBv9Ysi-g ; the narrator blames the 3asabat asad (Asad's gangs), and theres probably dozens which say or infer the same thing. It's conclusive all these raw videos straight from the source implicate President Bashar al Asad.

The narrator? :rolleyes: can you please find some real evidence, and not something from "activists" in Syria?
Just because you don't doesn't mean others dont, secondly, if that's true, then the entire title of this thread is bogus it's calming what? It's claiming it was phony. But I thought we didn't know.

we don't, but the way it is being presented is indicative that they are lying to us... ..again.


Oh you call bullshit? I guess that makes you right.

I know damn well, that in ANY society and any civil conflict, there will be those who like things the way they are, and those who call for change. Not to mention at least the Assad regime itself has claimed that foreign influences abound in this. And, let's just cut to the chase, if you think for one second MI6 and the CIA are not already in Syria, you are delusional.

So you are going to tell Arabs about the carnage of bombs.

yeah. I know damn well how people are. They'll whoop and holler for joy when their "enemies" are bombed to death, because they have some vision of a greater place resulting of it, or they just plain hate the "others". It's called divide et impera, and it's the oldest trick in the book. There have always been collaborators with the colonizers. Many, even unwittingly.

And here lies the problem the apparent ignorance of people claiming very bold things, do you know the population of Syria?? It's upwards of 20,000,000 do you know the population of the Allawi Shia (the ruling class)?? About 2,000,000, and most of them are up north in cozy Damascus not in the villages of Homs, and Edlib, and Der'a.

How can this be sectarian if a FRACTION of the population is even allawite??? its the rich ruling class vs the poor who although are a majority, have been subjugated to the rule of the Iranian backed Allawites for decades.

Ahh, yes, now I am remembering some of the silly things you have been saying, like how Israel loves the Shia, if they didn't, they would have already killed Nasrallah... yada yada yada.

I simply don't care what the American propaganda machine is saying, I'm not getting my facts from there, I'm here proving the obvious point that the Syrians are being massacred by their own regime, and it's not some god damn conspiracy, but once again "america sympathises with the rebels and is therefore a falseflag" I pity people who subscribe to this contrarian logic.

It is a conspiracy. Let's just be clear, the west wants their former colony to be a colony again. And they will use whatever internal conflict they can, to set up a new puppet under their control.

So even if Assad is brutally repressing a rebellion, I would be a god damned fool to think America and Britain and France want to just go in their and set up some real nice-like democracy where everyone shares the wealth of Syria. No way, no how. Whatever the west puts in place will be just as elite and oppressive as the assad regime, except then, when protesters are killed en masse, and cities rebel, they'll be called terrorists, and have predator drone missiles launched at them with impunity.

It is obvious. Like in Yemen where the west coddles Saleh and his regime, but in Tripoli, it destroys Ghaddafi's.

edit: by the way yeah some people do blame other than revolutionaries but who are those people?? the state run media. why would people on a ron paul forum agree with the state run media of syria who blames al qaeda and foreign elements?? :S any REAL people blame asad simple as that

Because a lot of us know how this game is played. it is not as "simple as that".
 
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About 2,000,000, and most of them are up north in cozy Damascus not in the villages of Homs, and Edlib, and Der'a.

up north in Damascus? :confused:
map_of_syria.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKQBv9Ysi-g ; the narrator blames the 3asabat asad (Asad's gangs), and theres probably dozens which say or infer the same thing. It's conclusive all these raw videos straight from the source implicate President Bashar al Asad.

This video is not from the Houla massacre.

Furthermore, it is all young men, more than likely fighters killed in battle.

So how about you tell us what you are up to?

What is your agenda?

Gay girl in Damascus, is that you?

LoL
 
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Gleiwitz incident. Ever heard of it?
Operation Ajax. Ever heard of it?
Lavon Affair. Ever heard of it?

Just a few well known events in history. Things are not always what they are meant to appear to be.
 
Well this is currently interesting This is what Fox News is showing Us.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/slideshow/2012/05/29/108-killed-in-syrian-massacre-un-human-rights-office-says/#slide=1

First image is what it appears to be taken supposedly during the Houla attack, but there is something wrong with that image, its taken during the Day Time because General Robert Mood of the UN mission in Sryia stated the following.


Maj. Gen. Robert Mood, the head of the U.N. Supervision Mission in Syria, said the attacks happened overnight but that the circumstances that led to the deaths is unclear.

If the attack happened overnight why is the first image shot during the day?

Something smells rotten.
 
Would just like to point out that in fact Croatians and Muslims were victims of Serbian attacks and that mass graves were found both in Croatia and Bosnia. War is war and probably some civilian Serbs were innocent victims of revenge from the Croats and Muslims, but you didn't have mass graves in Serbia. But Serbia sure was targeted for its strategic position with Kosovo and Albania where currently one big ass US base is stationed

Croatia Of Today Is cleansed of All Serbs, only 3% Serbs are still living in Croatia in the mountains.

were innocent victims of revenge from the Croats and Muslims
:rolleyes:
They were not revenge, they were both cleansing the serbs out.
 
I've long since gone to simply assuming that these kinds of things were orchestrated by western intelligence agencies. Haven't been wrong yet.
 
I've read your posts, and many of them have ridiculous little things in them about silly religious differences, that only a religious partisan would care about. I was quite shocked, because I was agreeing with you on some of these threads... ...and then, bam, out of nowhere you say something ridiculous.

Furthermore, every muslim ex-pat I have met came to America far more for economic reasons than political reasons, which makes me strongly question their allegiance to their own people.

I'm not an ex-pat, I'm full America I was born here, and raised here. I never said Israel loves the Shi'a that's a straw man fallacy, I said Israel has done dealings with Iran in order to defeat Saddam Hussein (the real enemy to Israel, they hit Israel with Scuds). These facts are well known and well documented, but partisan? I condemn the very same Sunni leaders who deal with America and Israel against Iraq, like the house of Saud who paid America to attack Saddam Hussein, which definitely made Iran happy.

If you have an explanation as to why Anwar al Awlaki was hunted down with drones, and Hassan Nasruallah hasn't been touched, please enlighten us, if you have an explanation as to why Shia who openly support Hezbullah (a "terrorist" organization) are hardly ever touched by the FBI here right in America, please let us know, if you have an explanation why even with all the rhetoric Iran spews, why they dealt with Israel in the Iran-Iraq war, under the leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini the "fiercest" of them all, then EXPLAIN it rather than say it's ridiculous because it doesn't fit your preconceived world view.

Who do you think took over Iraq after America toppled Saddam?? The Shia! The Iranian backed Jaysh al Mehdi under Muqtada al Sadr made many deals with the Americans and still operate in Iraq calling the shots, the government is Shia, and there are even reports of non-Arab iranians doing interrogations of people there in their secret prisons, so once again the tide was shifted to the Iranians with the help of America.

When there's a threat somewhere to Israel it's dealt with either by Israel itself, or by American drones, and we haven't seen them go after Iran yet, or any Iranian backed groups Iran has never warred with Israel but the Arabs sure have.

The narrator? can you please find some real evidence, and not something from "activists" in Syria?

:confused: did you watch it??? By narrator I mean the one holding the damn camera who is obviously surrounded by the relatives of the dead. You're clearly in denail.

Ahh, yes, now I am remembering some of the silly things you have been saying, like how Israel loves the Shia, if they didn't, they would have already killed Nasrallah... yada yada yada.

Complete and utter diversion. It's not a sectarian battle. If it was the sunnis would overwhelmingly win, there are even Christians and Allawis on the side of the FSA, my point is the FSA couldn't massacre civilians even if they wanted to because their enemies in the civilian sector (the allawis) are a VERY small minority by comparison, it's not Iraq, it's not a sectarian war, its a war of the ruling class vs the people.

So even if Assad is brutally repressing a rebellion, I would be a god damned fool to think America and Britain and France want to just go in their and set up some real nice-like democracy where everyone shares the wealth of Syria. No way, no how. Whatever the west puts in place will be just as elite and oppressive as the assad regime, except then, when protesters are killed en masse, and cities rebel, they'll be called terrorists, and have predator drone missiles launched at them with impunity.

You're not arguing against my point. I don't disagree CIA/MI6 or whatever other intel agencies are IN syria, but that doesn't dispute the fact that the Assad regime is murdering its people en masse, that's a fact that's illustrated in the raw videos I posted.

Because a lot of us know how this game is played. it is not as "simple as that".
lol, no you don't.

This video is not from the Houla massacre.

You're right that was from a different houla massacre, i didn't check the date. Here's one from the one we're discussing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHYqGzsvSw "killed by the hands of asad's shabiha"

up north in Damascus?

my point was the allawi stronghold is the capital and the north, heres their dispersion
Alawites_in_the_Levant.jpg


the rest and vast majority of syria is sunni, and even in the green part theres a lot of sunni majority places, the allawi shia are a very small minority that hold a disproportionate amount of power.

Gay girl in Damascus, is that you?

yep you got me
 
Just like in Bosnia Turning Public Opinion agaisnt the Serbs and While portraying the Muslims and Croatians as the solo victims of the Serbs and The MSM claims of a Great Serbia which is a Myth.

Deja vu all over again.

"Concentration camps! Death camps!"

 
Like I said, look up the Bodo league massacre. Hundreds of thousands of people killed by S. Korea, blamed on N. Korea, and it was believed N. Korea did it for over 50 years, even though N. Korea denied it. Come to find out, N. Korea was right, they were killed by S. Korean forces, many times while U.S. troops guarded them.

WTF

I can't believe I've never heard of this until now...
 
I saw Krauthammer on Faux Noise yesterday while they were talking about this incident. Guy was just incensed that we weren't doing anything like arming the resistance or getting involved somehow.

These people have never met a conflict they didn't like.

Minor correction: they have never met a conflict -- they could send other peoples' children to fight -- that they didn't like.
 
If you have an explanation as to why Anwar al Awlaki was hunted down with drones, and Hassan Nasruallah hasn't been touched, please enlighten us,

Easy, Americans have access to Yemeni airspace, but not to Lebanese. And assassination via f-16 in a foreign country is not as easy as you think.

if you have an explanation as to why Shia who openly support Hezbullah (a "terrorist" organization) are hardly ever touched by the FBI here right in America, please let us know,

uh huh... You just want me to take your word for it that Hezbollah is hardly ever touched by the FBI?

if you have an explanation why even with all the rhetoric Iran spews, why they dealt with Israel in the Iran-Iraq war, under the leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini the "fiercest" of them all, then EXPLAIN it rather than say it's ridiculous because it doesn't fit your preconceived world view.

I already explained that one. Its divide et imperia. And the person who first published the small dealings of Israel with Iran says the same. Israel wanted the war to continue, to further weaken both.

Who do you think took over Iraq after America toppled Saddam?? The Shia! The Iranian backed Jaysh al Mehdi under Muqtada al Sadr made many deals with the Americans and still operate in Iraq calling the shots, the government is Shia, and there are even reports of non-Arab iranians doing interrogations of people there in their secret prisons, so once again the tide was shifted to the Iranians with the help of America.

And you are going to try to tell me that this is... why, again?
Oh, right, Israel prefers the Shia over the Sunni. The same Shia who are the oppressors in Syria, oppressors of Iraqis, and other sunnis, like yourself.
Yeah, I did notice there was a little war between sunni and shia in Iraq, and it sounds like, had you lived there, you would be picking your side too.

When there's a threat somewhere to Israel it's dealt with either by Israel itself, or by American drones, and we haven't seen them go after Iran yet, or any Iranian backed groups Iran has never warred with Israel but the Arabs sure have.

I'd say Iran's proxy, Hezbollah, is as close as they could get. Let's not forget, Iran is about 1000 miles from Israel, and two countries away, to boot. Wasn't it prettyu much Hezbollah that defeated Israel in the 2006 Lebanon war? You know, crippled the Israeli anti-missile ship with an anti-ship missile, the INS Hanit?

This is what I am talking about. You seem to have these blind spots in your history. So you sound well educated... ...except when one looks beneath the surface, they see a strong Sunni preference for facts.

Complete and utter diversion. It's not a sectarian battle. If it was the sunnis would overwhelmingly win, there are even Christians and Allawis on the side of the FSA, my point is the FSA couldn't massacre civilians even if they wanted to because their enemies in the civilian sector (the allawis) are a VERY small minority by comparison, it's not Iraq, it's not a sectarian war, its a war of the ruling class vs the people.

OK, it's class warfare, (just like it was hutu vs tutsi in Rwanda) but we can still consider that sectarian violence, especially if there are more than just class lines dividing people, as is the case here.
You're not arguing against my point. I don't disagree CIA/MI6 or whatever other intel agencies are IN syria, but that doesn't dispute the fact that the Assad regime is murdering its people en masse, that's a fact that's illustrated in the raw videos I posted.

So, what DO YOU think happened at Houla?
Assad's army marched right into rebel controlled area, and rounded up a bunch of people and executed them in dead of night?
After all, that is what the news reports are now saying:
Most Houla victims killed in summary executions: U.N. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-syria-unbre84s100-20120529,0,1432506.story

So, do you believe that's how it happened? Walked right into houses and executed families?
Also, please explain why activist videos show this happening during the day, but the U.N. report is saying it happened at night.

Also, they say only syria has artillery, but surely the rebels have RPG's.

And, please, explain to me... ..how the Bodo league massacre was blamed on the North Koreans for over 50 years. This is a story about 109 people, that was a story about 100,000 to 1.2 MILLION people massacred, and blamed on the opposition. The whole "blame the enemy for your own atrocities" is nothing new.


lol, no you don't.

Yeah, I think I do. I am a history major from the University of Washington, here in Seattle, and I took it seriously. What are your credentials? That you are Arab, therefore you know all truth about middle east policy? Well how about I am American, and formally studied in history, (29 classes, hundreds of books, 3.7 gpa in these 29 courses) and I know a thing or two about American foreign policy and manipulation. And that is just because I am interested in it, there is hardly an area of the world I did not study (Japan, the Arabian Peninsula, not much of East Africa, not much of Scandinavia and the Baltic states are the only areas I would say I got little studying done on). So yeah, talking down to me isn't going to work, friend.

You're right that was from a different houla massacre, i didn't check the date.

Massacre? Those look like dead fighters to me.

Here's one from the one we're discussing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHYqGzsvSw "killed by the hands of asad's shabiha"

Assad's shabiha. Another thing you have been trying to argue is Assad himself is pulling the strings. How do you know these shabiha aren't just angry conservatives who want to keep their power, and are defying Assad's wishes? Do you think Assad is enjoying being handed a country embroiled in civil war? Do you think he still believes hard power is better than soft? And EVEN IF Assad ordered the Shabiba in, how does that prove these casualties are from a massacre? How do we know they are not simply the casualties of crossfire?

yep you got me

Yeah? well, what do you think about all the blatant lies and misinformation being spread about Syria? Why should we believe anything our government or press tells us, when they blow up stories like "gay girl in Damsscus" without ever checking the veracity of her claims... ...or if she even is Syrian. And in case you didn't know about that story, during that time, "conspiracy theorists" were strongly questioning whether she was even real, because it was all too convenient, and because she wrote like an American, not a Syrian.

"you can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of the people, all of the time." --Abraham Lincoln

What do you think about that? Do you think it is just incompetence? Please answer these questions.
 
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One more thing. Regarding your claim about Israel helping Iran during the Iran-Iraq war:
That is a claim, made by one Ronen Bergman.
This is what wikipedia says about him:
His books cover corruption in the Palestinian Authority, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Iranian nuclear project, and Israeli POWs and MIAs.
He is currently a senior political and military analyst for Yedioth Ahronoth,[1] Israel’s largest-circulation daily.

the wikipedia also said that Khomeni denied that Iran worked with Israel, and said it was propaganda.

So I don't even know if it is true that Israel sold Iran equipment during that war. I personally find the claim dubious at best.
 
I've long since gone to simply assuming that these kinds of things were orchestrated by western intelligence agencies. Haven't been wrong yet.

The fact that Western countries are supporting the rebels doesn't render the rebellion invalid. Lets say tomorrow some Ron Paul lovers started a rebellion here, don't you think Russia and China would be quick to support them? Of course they would. Does that mean Ron Paul lovers are tools of Russia and China? No. They just have shared interests at a particular point in time.

I'm strongly against any intervention though, just to make that clear, but that doesn't make the rebellion invalid. People have a right to rebel against oppressive governments.

I'm not an ex-pat, I'm full America I was born here, and raised here. I never said Israel loves the Shi'a that's a straw man fallacy, I said Israel has done dealings with Iran in order to defeat Saddam Hussein (the real enemy to Israel, they hit Israel with Scuds). These facts are well known and well documented, but partisan? I condemn the very same Sunni leaders who deal with America and Israel against Iraq, like the house of Saud who paid America to attack Saddam Hussein, which definitely made Iran happy.

If you have an explanation as to why Anwar al Awlaki was hunted down with drones, and Hassan Nasruallah hasn't been touched, please enlighten us, if you have an explanation as to why Shia who openly support Hezbullah (a "terrorist" organization) are hardly ever touched by the FBI here right in America, please let us know, if you have an explanation why even with all the rhetoric Iran spews, why they dealt with Israel in the Iran-Iraq war, under the leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini the "fiercest" of them all, then EXPLAIN it rather than say it's ridiculous because it doesn't fit your preconceived world view.

This is sheer denialism, Israel has made pacts with plenty of Sunni countries, and they have always had very poor relations with Iran. A more likely scenario is that there is a common US-Israel-Sunni alliance against Iran, which is playing out in the way the media handled the Bahrain rebellion compared to the Syrian rebellion. Sunni countries even privately called on the US to strike Iran, while pretending to be against US imperialism in public.

I have no problem with Israel whatsoever fyi, I think we should stay out of Israeli/Middle Eastern affairs.
 
One more thing. Regarding your claim about Israel helping Iran during the Iran-Iraq war:
That is a claim, made by one Ronen Bergman.
This is what wikipedia says about him:
His books cover corruption in the Palestinian Authority, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Iranian nuclear project, and Israeli POWs and MIAs.
He is currently a senior political and military analyst for Yedioth Ahronoth,[1] Israel’s largest-circulation daily.

the wikipedia also said that Khomeni denied that Iran worked with Israel, and said it was propaganda.

So I don't even know if it is true that Israel sold Iran equipment during that war. I personally find the claim dubious at best.

Dude, one more thing. Israel was hip deep in selling arms to Iran in the 80's, even without the Iran-Contra affair. Take a look at the New York Times 2/1/87

According to the Israeli businessman, Yaacov Nimrodi, the Israelis pursued their own arms sale to Iran because they saw an opportunity to re-establish contacts with pragmatists in the highest circles of power in Teheran and because their Iranian contact promised to give Israel a Soviet-made T-72 tank captured from the Iraqi Army in the Persian Gulf war. Most Advanced Soviet Tank

Philadelphia Inquirer 5/8/88

Billions of dollars in arms are continuing to flow to both sides in the Iran-Iraq war in defiance of administration efforts to achieve an arms embargo. Some of the arms are coming from America's closest allies. Israeli arms merchants are supplying Iran with parts for sophisticated U.S.-built F-4 and F-5 jets, according to administration sources, a possible violation of the U.S. arms-export control law.

Palm Beach Post 3/8/82

Israeli officials in Jerusalem acknowledge the secret arms supply relationship with Iran, but maintained it was on a small scale.

Feel free to remain dubious. Just try not to base it on a Wikipedia whack job.

XNN
 
Didn't anyone read Reagan's memoirs? Why do think it was called the Iran-Contra "scandal" and not a "conflict"?
 
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