Pentagon to Start Awarding Medals for Drone Strikes

Aeroneous said:
Come on man.. the hatred and arrogance on this forum toward specific groups of people is getting old.

Lazy fucks? Right. Because you have got to be lazy as hell to through basic training and over half a year of 12 hour training days to earn the 1U0X1 AFSC. No real skill? So because they don't go into a job that you hold in high regard, there's no skill involved? C4ISR requires plenty of skills, high qualifications, and experience. Before I separated I was selected to go into this career field, and it's no damn cake walk. These people are not in harm's way, but they work long ass hours in remote parts of the country on random rotating schedules that make normal life nearly impossible. I looked at doing it because it is the cutting edge of aviation technology, and I thought it would be fun. My political views shifted and I decided to cancel my retraining and separate from the military. Most people that go into this don't go into it because they want to kill people from the safety of an arm chair. I'm sick and tired of people making RPA Sensor Operators and Pilots out to be some kind of sick fucking terrorists. Nobody is signing up to do this job because they're hell bent on murder and destruction. 99.9% of what you do in either of these positions is pure recon, and it is VERY RARE that you will actually be involved with delivery or ordinance.

You all need to get off your moral high horses and quit judging people who you've never even had the slightest damn connection to.
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Seriously?...

There is a sick mental rot taking over the average American mind: many see their soldiers as high priests of justice and goodness. Fascism and the permanent preemptive war economy requires this mass mental delusion.
 
awake said:
Seriously?...

There is a sick mental rot taking over the average American mind: many see their soldiers as high priests of justice and goodness. Fascism and the permanent preemptive war economy requires this mass mental delusion.
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Yes, seriously. I'm not calling these people saints or high priests of justice, but you guys keep referring to them as nothing more than blood thirsty terrorists. Like it or not, most people join the military to defend their country. Most of them do it at a time where they are easily swayed by manipulation. Many will find out how things really operate, and decide it's not for them. People here seem to just make the assumption that they joined because they're some kind of blood lust murderers, when in reality they were doing something that they thought to be honorable. Quit alienating these people and start politely educating instead... veterans and active duty personnel should be some of the easiest people to convince BECAUSE they care about their country.

But whatever.. I'm just spinning my wheels. You're all going to go on thinking they're terrorist bastards who waste their lives away sucking the government tit, and that's your right to think so. All I'm asking is that you consider the fact that you guys haven't even met these people, yet you cast terrible judgement upon them. I don't recall Ron Paul doing such things.
 
Aeroneous said:
Yes, seriously. I'm not calling these people saints or high priests of justice, but you guys keep referring to them as nothing more than blood thirsty terrorists. Like it or not, most people join the military to defend their country. Most of them do it at a time where they are easily swayed by manipulation. Many will find out how things really operate, and decide it's not for them. People here seem to just make the assumption that they joined because they're some kind of blood lust murderers, when in reality they were doing something that they thought to be honorable. Quit alienating these people and start politely educating instead... veterans and active duty personnel should be some of the easiest people to convince BECAUSE they care about their country.

But whatever.. I'm just spinning my wheels. You're all going to go on thinking they're terrorist bastards who waste their lives away sucking the government tit, and that's your right to think so. All I'm asking is that you consider the fact that you guys haven't even met these people, yet you cast terrible judgement upon them. I don't recall Ron Paul doing such things.
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Terrorists? Absolutely not. But the innocent people who are dying everyday due to U.S. manufactured munitions surly aren't killing themselves by stepping in the way of their trajectories. Real soldiers are murdering innocent civilians. But soldiers don't murder in your world. Its "war" or some other nonsensical apology.

Riddle me this: If no person has the right to judge another human being, especially a soldier, with out knowing them, how does a soldier pull the trigger in such the exact same fashion? Is he not judging and executing another human with out knowing them first?

Sure the guy casing a joint for his buddies who are going to rob and kill the property owner isn't a murder, but he ain't innocent.
 
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awake said:
Terrorists? Absolutely not. But the innocent people who are dying everyday due to U.S. manufactured munitions surly aren't killing themselves by stepping in the way of their trajectories. Real soldiers are murdering innocent civilians. But soldiers don't murder in your world. Its "war" or some other nonsensical apology.
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Yeah, cause in my world soldiers just have tea parties and play dress-up.

The percentage of military population that actually cause injury or death is so extremely small... especially within the drone community. What I'm getting at is that people here just make all these generalizations that all military members are terrible people who kill. In one form or another, almost all of us support the military operations in one fashion or another (through lack of refusal to pay supporting taxes or lack of real action to stop the operations). There's hypocrisy here. In some threads people preach courteous actions and suggest that we treat others as human beings (I.E. CaptainAmerica in the thread about whether or not to remove an artist's YouTube video) but then in the very next thread they make some rude and insensitive comments.
 
My position. No medal. They will receive commendation and ribbon enough. There was never a specific "Distinguished Warfare Medal" for guiding in a fighter/bomber to a carrier deck on a dark and stormy night on equipment far more archaic and non-intuitive than that which they use. It was a job. Unless you're getting your ass shot at then you don't deserve the chest candy. Just my 2 cents.
 
Aeroneous said:
Yeah, cause in my world soldiers just have tea parties and play dress-up.

The percentage of military population that actually cause injury or death is so extremely small... especially within the drone community. What I'm getting at is that people here just make all these generalizations that all military members are terrible people who kill. In one form or another, almost all of us support the military operations in one fashion or another (through lack of refusal to pay supporting taxes or lack of real action to stop the operations). There's hypocrisy here. In some threads people preach courteous actions and suggest that we treat others as human beings (I.E. CaptainAmerica in the thread about whether or not to remove an artist's YouTube video) but then in the very next thread they make some rude and insensitive comments.
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No, they are people capable of terrible things. A percentage do the killing...But once the orders are given, they follow with inhuman precision. Almost robotic.

The American military machine has made it their main mission to occupy and make prisons of foreign nations. Karma has a wicked way about it: the prisons and occupation is now making its way to the home front.
 
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awake said:
No, they are people capable of terrible things. A percentage do the killing...But once the orders are given, they follow with inhuman precision. Almost robotic.
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I don't know if you've ever served in the military (I'm getting the impression that you haven't) but there's a reason for that. Call it brainwashing, socialization, etc., but when you're in the military you are of the mindset that you follow orders or your world ends. It sort of becomes self preservation. When you face a court-martial for disobeying a direct order, the stakes are EXTREMELY high. It's not just a simple decision that one cake easily make on the spot. "Eh.. I don't like this order.. not gonna do it." The result of following some orders is obviously pretty bad, but frequently the people who receive them are good people that just aren't in the right frame of mind. Your frame of reference to what is ethical, moral, or legal chances significantly when you're in a ditch facing a squad of people firing at you.

With regard to the drones, at least, no operator would intentionally pull the trigger on a known innocent victim. Collateral damage is terrible, but genuinely accidental in nearly all cases. No operator gets an order to kill an innocent person. Typically they perform hours of recon over several weeks/months to generate intelligence profiles on people, and it requires some significant evidence to actually get an order to pull the trigger. At least in the Air Force it does, can't speak for the CIA (I've heard it's quite different in that realm). Some of these people are probably just freedom fighters who want us out of their land, but you do have to acknowledge that a significant number of them are terrorists linked to organizations that would love the opportunity to harm us on our own soil. Is it blowback from our own involvement? Yes. Does that mean the problem will just magically go away through non-intervention? If we gave it enough time, sure, but it wouldn't happen in the short term and the public would not be willing to take it on the chin a few times for the end goal of the long term.
 
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Aeroneous said:
I don't know if you've ever served in the military (I'm getting the impression that you haven't) but there's a reason for that. Call it brainwashing, socialization, etc., but when you're in the military you are of the mindset that you follow orders or your world ends. It sort of becomes self preservation. When you face a court-martial for disobeying a direct order, the stakes are EXTREMELY high. It's not just a simple decision that one cake easily make on the spot. "Eh.. I don't like this order.. not gonna do it." The result of following some orders is obviously pretty bad, but frequently the people who receive them are good people that just aren't in the right frame of mind. Your frame of reference to what is ethical, moral, or legal chances significantly when you're in a ditch facing a squad of people firing at you.

With regard to the drones, at least, no operator would intentionally pull the trigger on a known innocent victim. Collateral damage is terrible, but genuinely accidental in nearly all cases. No operator gets an order to kill an innocent person. Typically they perform hours of recon over several weeks/months to generate intelligence profiles on people, and it requires some significant evidence to actually get an order to pull the trigger. At least in the Air Force it does, can't speak for the CIA (I've heard it's quite different in that realm). Some of these people are probably just freedom fighters who want us out of their land, but you do have to acknowledge that a significant number of them are terrorists linked to organizations that would love the opportunity to harm us on our own soil. Is it blowback from our own involvement? Yes. Does that mean the problem will just magically go away through non-intervention? If we gave it enough time, sure, but it wouldn't happen in the short term and the public would not be willing to take it on the chin a few times for the end goal of the long term.
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I have served...I never followed through on my "pledge" to the sociopaths in charge of my country..Thank God. I understand the "military conditioning" and the reasons behind it. It is brainwashing and cultist at its purest.

Military training is designed to alter a man from his moral nature to the new socialist man: mindless order follower. Military training is the culmination and application of the worst that the study of human psychology has revealed.
 
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awake said:
I have served...I never followed through on my "pledge" to the sociopaths in charge of my country..Thank God. I understand the "military conditioning" and the reasons behind it. It is brainwashing and cultist at its purest.
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So you can at least see how it could happen, and understand that the people who receive and carry out these orders are not necessarily doing so with malice in mind. That's really the point I'm trying to get across.. it just seems that most on here would never be willing to open their mind to such an idea. Instead they say that military members are just terrible, lazy, government handout recipients.
 
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Aeroneous said:
So you can at least see how it could happen, and understand that the people who receive and carry out these orders are not necessarily doing so with malice in mind. That's really the point I'm trying to get across.. it just seems that most on here would never be willing to open their mind to such an idea. Instead they say that military members are just terrible, lazy, government handout recipients.
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When Manson ordered his followers to kill...were they simply following orders? Not all soldiers are murders... some simply draw an income for not much productive.
 
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awake said:
When Manson ordered his followers to kill...were they simply following orders? Not all soldiers are murders... some simply draw an income for not much productive.
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I think the surrounding circumstances are quite different. Manson's followers certainly had malice as a motivating factor. I see the connection, but I think the comparison is a bit of a stretch.
 
Aeroneous said:
I think the surrounding circumstances are quite different. Manson's followers certainly had malice as a motivating factor. I see the connection, but I think the comparison is a bit of a stretch.
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They are thiefs and welfare queens. No soldier "earns" money, he is granted an involuntary transfer of another's wealth via the state.

Soldiers implicitly support serfdom, but I'm sure you think many are conservative LOL
 
Hmm, seems someone has it out against you itshappening. Last few threads I saw of your were rated one star. I'll see if I can't bump it up.
 
itshappening said:
The last time I played it (few years ago) it took ages to download all the sounds and stuff they package on those servers :(

I think I got my money's worth out of Half-life 2 though, considering all the free mods and the amount of time I played CS
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Some servers have faster upload speeds than others, and often it's not a problem. Also, many don't require the annoying 1GB+ of .wavs and mods like some do. Although the ones that do, once you download them, you don't have to redownload them, even for another server that uses the same downloads.
 
schiffheadbaby said:
They are thiefs and welfare queens. No soldier "earns" money, he is granted an involuntary transfer of another's wealth via the state.

Soldiers implicitly support serfdom, but I'm sure you think many are conservative LOL
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Keep pandering to the RPF hive mind. I'm done with this argument.
 
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