Pelosi caught in a double standard and gets PISSED

Minimum wage laws are good, because they provide protection for the employee. Just look at WalMart -- they would certainly pay their employees less if they could. The employees wouldn't have any recourse in that situation, and many of them are already below the poverty line. It shows ignorance to say that they could simply quit the job and work elsewhere if WalMart slashed their wages down to $4.00 an hour.

"We have already seen some of the harmful results of arbitrary governmental efforts to raise the price of favored commodities. The same sort of harmful results follow efforts to raise wages through minimum wage laws. This ought not to be surprising, for a wage is, in fact, a price. It is unfortunate for clarity of economic thinking that the price of labor’s services should have received an entirely different name from other prices. This has prevented most people from recognizing that the same principles govern both.

Thinking has become so emotional and so politically biased on the subject of wages that in most discussions of them the plainest principles are ignored. People who would be among the first to deny that prosperity could be brought about by artificially boosting prices, people who would be among the first to point out that minimum price laws might be most harmful to the very industries they were designed to help, will nevertheless advocate minimum wage laws, and denounce opponents of them, without misgivings.

Yet it ought to be clear that a minimum wage law is, at best, a limited weapon for combatting the evil of low wages, and that the possible good to be achieved by such a law can exceed the possible harm only in proportion as its aims are modest. The more ambitious such a law is, the larger the number of workers it attempts to cover, and the more it attempts to raise their wages, the more certain are its harmful effects to exceed any possible good effects.

The first thing that happens, for example, when a law is passed that no one shall be paid less than $106 for a forty-hour week is that no one who is not worth $106 a week to an employer will be employed at all. You cannot make a man worth a given amount by making it illegal for anyone to offer him anything less. You merely deprive him of the right to earn the amount that his abilities and situation would permit him to earn, while you deprive the community even of the moderate services that he is capable of rendering. In brief, for a low wage you substitute unemployment. You do harm all around, with no comparable compensation.

The only exception to this occurs when a group of workers is receiving a wage actually below its market worth. This is likely to happen only in rare and special circumstances or localities where competitive forces do not operate freely or adequately; but nearly all these special cases could be remedied just as effectively, more flexibly and with far less potential harm, by unionization.

It may be thought that if the law forces the payment of a higher wage in a given industry, that industry can then charge higher prices for its product, so that the burden of paying the higher wage is merely shifted to consumers. Such shifts, however, are not easily made, nor are the consequences of artificial wage-raising so easily escaped. A higher price for the product may not be possible: it may merely drive consumers to the equivalent imported products or to some substitute. Or, if consumers continue to buy the product of the industry in which wages have been raised, the higher price will cause them to buy less of it. While some workers in the industry may be benefited from the higher wage, therefore, others will be thrown out of employment altogether. On the other hand, if the price of the product is not raised, marginal producers in the industry will be driven out of business; so that reduced production and consequent unemployment will merely be brought about in another way.

When such consequences are pointed out, there are those who reply: “Very well; if it is true that the X industry cannot exist except by paying starvation wages, then it will be just as well if the minimum wage puts it out of existence altogether.” But this brave pronouncement overlooks the realities. It overlooks, first of all, that consumers will suffer the loss of that product. It forgets, in the second place, that it is merely condemning the people who worked in that industry to unemployment. And it ignores, finally, that bad as were the wages paid in the X industry, they were the best among all the alternatives that seemed open to the workers in that industry; otherwise the workers would have gone into another. If, therefore, the X industry is driven out of existence by a minimum wage law, then the workers previously employed in that industry will be forced to turn to alternative courses that seemed less attractive to them in the first place. Their competition for jobs will drive down the pay offered even in these alternative occupations. There is no escape from the conclusion that the minimum wage will increase unemployment."

-Henry Hazlitt
 
How does he get the politicians to agree to sit down like that and answer questions... I mean surely congressman would agree if a reporter from the MSM asked them, but some random guy with a nice camera?

Borat did. ;)

You probably just have to present yourself well over the phone, maybe fax in a request and some credentials, wait for an availability in their schedule, and just show up prepared for the interview.
Pelosi mentioned "the half hour is up" so maybe they were scheduled for 30 minutes, and he used the front time asking softball questions to not make her jumpy too quick.
Just guessing, tho.
 
[...]
If they offered $2 an hour and no one worked it then they would raise the price until people did. Free markets work because it will go with the supply and demand of jobs.

We don't need a government to make sure we get paid correctly because that can and will happen all on its own.

Well, it won't happen on it's own, right? WalMart clearly will not pay a living wage to all employees. The minimum wage is not even a living wage because of inflation -- the minimum wage needs to be increased. If it happened on its own, there would be no reason for minimum wage laws, I agree. Many people would still work for WalMart for $4 an hour, especially if every large employer lowered their salaries at the same time (i.e. when the minimum wage law was repealed). $2 an hour, I agree, WalMart would have no employees. However, at $4 an hour, they would, even though those employees would probably be starving and certainly suffering from malnutrition (if they had families).

AutoDas said:
Have you ever been an intern? People "volunteer" just like those Government pupils to get experience.

Right, that is what I'm saying. Volunteers and interns are different than wage-earners. There is a difference that cannot be ignored, as the interviewer was trying to do.

brandonyates - I agree that minimum wage laws increase unemployment. That is true without a doubt. However, it is still better for the lower class to have a minimum wage (esp. when combined with welfare), than to not have one and be forced to work for $3 or $4 an hour if they want a job.

brandonyates said:
The only exception to this occurs when a group of workers is receiving a wage actually below its market worth. This is likely to happen only in rare and special circumstances or localities where competitive forces do not operate freely or adequately; but nearly all these special cases could be remedied just as effectively, more flexibly and with far less potential harm, by unionization.

I agree that strong unions are preferable to minimum wages. However, not all industries have unions (WalMart, for example).

I'm not sure why this guy says that "receiving a wage actually below its market worth" would "happen only in rare and special circumstances". Even the minimum wage, I would argue, is below market worth for many businesses. If the employee has nothing to bargain with, why would the fatcats pay the market worth? You can say that they can bargain with their feet, but simple refusal to work at a certain rate is very poor bargaining power, when there are so many people who need jobs (and many illegal immigrants for whom the minimum wage laws do not apply). If you say "Screw you, I'm leaving" I don't think the business owners care -- they just go to the next person in line.

Stem the tide of illegal immigration, and ensure unions for all employees who want them, and I think you can get rid of the minimum wage. As things stand currently, I don't think it would be good to get rid of it.
 
Until we let the free market actually be a free market we will never actually know if it can and will right itself or not. Anytime someone is making up a wage based on "whatever" then there is never going to be the chance to show that the wage WILL go with supply and demand.

The government should not force a wage amount on a company no matter how right it sounds. That is the same common or uncommon sense as taxing our wages so we can help out those less fortunate people. Sure it seems right but charities should be left in the hands of those who WANT to give it and not forced out of them.

Why do we have a federal and state minimum wages then. If the government knows what is best then why isn't theirs raised EVERYWHERE?

THe only reason the minimum wage keeps on rising is due to inflation and when companies can no longer pay their minimum wage of $14 an hour then guess what will happen to the jobs.

Minimum wage only happens in blue collar jobs and working class jobs anyways. Why don't white collar jobs pay minimum wages? because the jobs won't be filled until a set pay is found. Like what if a doctor was getting minimum wage would he take it? nope.. what about $30k a year? NOPE what about 100k a year? now we are talking.

People will work the jobs they can and for whatever they feel they are worth. If they don't fit the criteria then they dont get paid the good money. It makes sense and will end up working out for the better.

A minimum wage is like the government trying to regulate our gas prices and stock markets. It does not work no matter how right it feels.

I would love to see how many jobs would find LEGAL workers at $4/hr. I think the jobs would NOT get filled and guess what would happen, FREE MARKET would happen and the hourly wage would go up until they found people willing to work for $X./hr...

We don't need to be mandated to pay this or that because people won't work for pennies and hour and if they did then that is their free will to get paid shit.

Well, it won't happen on it's own, right? WalMart clearly will not pay a living wage to all employees. The minimum wage is not even a living wage because of inflation -- the minimum wage needs to be increased. If it happened on its own, there would be no reason for minimum wage laws, I agree. Many people would still work for WalMart for $4 an hour, especially if every large employer lowered their salaries at the same time (i.e. when the minimum wage law was repealed). $2 an hour, I agree, WalMart would have no employees. However, at $4 an hour, they would, even though those employees would probably be starving and certainly suffering from malnutrition (if they had families).

AutoDas said:


Right, that is what I'm saying. Volunteers and interns are different than wage-earners. There is a difference that cannot be ignored, as the interviewer was trying to do.

brandonyates - I agree that minimum wage laws increase unemployment. That is true without a doubt. However, it is still better for the lower class to have a minimum wage (esp. when combined with welfare), than to not have one and be forced to work for $3 or $4 an hour if they want a job.

brandonyates said:


I agree that strong unions are preferable to minimum wages. However, not all industries have unions (WalMart, for example).

I'm not sure why this guy says that "receiving a wage actually below its market worth" would "happen only in rare and special circumstances". Even the minimum wage, I would argue, is below market worth for many businesses. If the employee has nothing to bargain with, why would the fatcats pay the market worth? You can say that they can bargain with their feet, but simple refusal to work at a certain rate is very poor bargaining power, when there are so many people who need jobs (and many illegal immigrants for whom the minimum wage laws do not apply). If you say "Screw you, I'm leaving" I don't think the business owners care -- they just go to the next person in line.

Stem the tide of illegal immigration, and ensure unions for all employees who want them, and I think you can get rid of the minimum wage. As things stand currently, I don't think it would be good to get rid of it.
 
Volunteers and interns are different than wage-earners. There is a difference that cannot be ignored, as the interviewer was trying to do.

oh my gawd

If a person wants to work for McDonalds gratis then who are you to say that it is illegal? Work is work. There is no difference, only a double standard.
 
I guess I should play devils advocate and state the obvious.
Mcdonalds is a private for profit business.
Pelosi is a government official.
Is everyone in this thread actually making the argument that we should be paying government workers(interns and such) more or that there is not difference between private and government?
Are you people arguing on behalf of fascism or am I confused?
 
If some guy can expose so much by doing so little than that proves the MSM sucks at doing their job. And I don't think they are that dumb. It's all smoke and mirrors folks. Illusion of choice, etc. But we already knew that didn't we?

Break The Matrix needs to hire this guy.
 
I'm not a Pelosi fan either, but she pretty much owned him. He kept asking the same thing, and it was obvious he was only trying to get a rise out of her, with all the interrupting and asking the one same question over and over. It was totally obvious it was not a legit interview and he was trying to entrap her on the min wage for her interns. I only watched that one, but he didn't seem like he had his shit together, and he was pretty much annoying with the interrupting and Borat impersonating...
 
Excuse me, but as a RP supporter, this interviewer lacked tact completely. I understand the reaction of Polisi. Sorry, this was a crap interview.
 
Excuse me, but as a RP supporter, this interviewer lacked tact completely. I understand the reaction of Polisi. Sorry, this was a crap interview.

So Nancy Pelosi is justified in her reaction (threatened to call the guard), and Jan is tactless?
FTR- I find it odd that you need to state to this board, "as a RP supporter".

Great interviews, and thanks for posting nox. :)
Bill Richardson is clueless, and my favorite was Harry Reid's "Voluntary Taxation".
I also enjoyed the interview with Pete Stark - I can't believe that pompous bastard threatened to throw Jan out of the window. Yes, these politicians are full of wisdom and tact. lol.
 
So it's ok if McD's starts an intern program to let people learn how to cook hamburgers and doesn't pay them. Just like what Pelosi is doing.
 
I would agree that the Pelosi interview was stupid and he was trying way too hard to make her look bad. It really shouldn't take that much work. However, the other two interviews were absolutely priceless.
 
So it's ok if McD's starts an intern program to let people learn how to cook hamburgers and doesn't pay them. Just like what Pelosi is doing.

Yeah, but this wouldn't fly because no one in their right mind would do that. There is a clear difference between earning a wage at a job you hate and interning at a job you wish you had.

Even if someone did want to work for McD's for free, they should not be allowed to do so. Just like people should never be allowed to voluntarily sell themselves into slavery. And that is what working for $4 an hour amounts to. Maybe, if you work really hard, you'll be able to eat, afford a crap apartment, and buy the gas to drive yourself home so you can sleep and work a double shift tomorrow. That's slavery, pure and simple.

I don't like a government-mandated minimum wage. I just don't see an alternative right now if we're to avoid wage slavery in this country.
 
I would agree that the Pelosi interview was stupid and he was trying way too hard to make her look bad. It really shouldn't take that much work. However, the other two interviews were absolutely priceless.
are you joking?
Then why was she voted in for the sole reason to "stop the war" when she knew about waterboarding all along?
she is a sick piece of trash that should not only be raked over hot coals, but should be thrown in to one of the FEMA camps!
 
Yeah, but this wouldn't fly because no one in their right mind would do that. There is a clear difference between earning a wage at a job you hate and interning at a job you wish you had.

Interns wish to be secretaries for the rest of their lives? Fast food employees that liked the chain could want to work there for free to get experience. If they value their time that little then the labor theory of value has no merit.

Even if someone did want to work for McD's for free, they should not be allowed to do so. Just like people should never be allowed to voluntarily sell themselves into slavery. And that is what working for $4 an hour amounts to. Maybe, if you work really hard, you'll be able to eat, afford a crap apartment, and buy the gas to drive yourself home so you can sleep and work a double shift tomorrow. That's slavery, pure and simple.

Let's see who is the slaver driver here...
You wish to define how a life should be and you don't believe people own themselves.

The whip's in your hand.

I don't like a government-mandated minimum wage. I just don't see an alternative right now if we're to avoid wage slavery in this country.

I'd love for you to go back to 19th century agrarian Jefferson society and tell the slaves in the southern states that if you get paid to work you are still a slave.

I bet you're human body is enslaving you. :rolleyes:
 
Pelosi Got Owned!

This is a great interview in which Nancy Pelosi gets caught in a double standard over minimum wage. It's OK for her to not pay people who choose to work for no monetary compensation, but not OK for businesses to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/janhelfeld

As a further note, this video reminds me of why politicians should be required to take a course in logic before they assume their elected offices. Come to think of it, they should be tested on the Constitution, too.
 
Back
Top