Paul Campaign Suing Maker of Huntsman False-Flag Video!!

[sailingaway]

Ron believes you own your reputation. He has certainly worked hard enough to keep his own spotless. I agree with him.

 

[Mini-Me]

Defamation/libel/slander is an interesting libertarian issue. I'm not sure where I stand on it when someone openly spreads lies to destroy someone else, but when someone fraudulently poses as someone else in order to slander them, there's probably a reasonable libertarian case to be made for litigation. The First Amendment also says there shall be "no law," but a civil lawsuit is a different matter altogether...

Regardless, this is tactically sound, and it should act as a deterrent against the continued false flag attacks.

 

[tremendoustie]

Fraud is a violation of property rights, as is yelling fire in a crowded theater. How was fraud committed against Ron Paul in this video though? It does not claim to be from Ron Paul or his campaign.

A fair point. I don't know the details of the situation, whether the user misrepresented himself in correspondence with journalists, or what.

I agree that if there was no fraud, then this is a baseless suit.

If the creator was associated with the huntsman campaign, however, don't you think there is a fraudulent component? They obviously tried to pretend the video was from a source other than themselves -- either the RP campaign or RP supporters -- and this deception certainly caused material damage (again, if these are the facts of the case -- I don't know for sure).

 

[Keith and stuff]

This is a GREAT move. They should have done it right before NH though. If Huntsman had dropped out early last week we could have won NH.

? Look where Huntsman did the best in NH. In many cases, it was rich liberal Republican leaning voters and Democratic leaning voters that supported Huntsman. Around 1/2 of the Huntsman voters were satisfied with Obama. My guess is Huntsman voters would have split to (mostly) the Democratic Primary, Ron Paul, Romney and not voting. Maybe 30% to the Democratic Primary, 20% to Ron Paul, 20% to Romney, 20% to not voting and the other 10% to the 27 other Republican candidates.

http://nhinsider.squarespace.com/re...nty-by-county-percentages-for-nh-primary.html

I also separated the towns Ron Paul won (approximately 60, mostly small towns), the towns Huntsman won (very few), and the towns Huntsman came in second ahead of Ron Paul, mostly more upscale or largely Democratic communities. Imagine that! Only towns in which more than 100 votes were cast are tabulated here.

Huntsman finished first in: Dublin, Keene, Nelson, Hanover, Hillsborough, Canterbury, Concord Ward 5, and Henniker.

Huntsman finished ahead of Ron Paul in those towns along with: Jackson, Bartlett, Tuftonboro, Chesterfield, Keene overall, Richmond, Walpole, Westmoreland, no place in Coos County, Franconia, Hebron, Holderness, Lebanon, Lyme, Orford, Waterville Valley, Amherst, Bedford, Hollis, Manchester Ward 1, Peterborough, Temple, Bow, Concord Wards 7 and 10, Hopkinton, Newbury, New London, Atkinson, Exeter, Greenland, Hampstead, Hampton Falls, Newcastle, Newfields, Newington, North Hampton, Portsmouth Wards 1 and 5, Rye, Stratham, Dover Wards 3 and 5, Durham, Madbury, Rochester Ward 3, Claremont Ward 2, Cornish, Grantham, and Plainfield.

 

[rob7779]

Can anyone estimate a realistic time frame as to when this lawsuit will expose those behind this ad? After the elections?

 

[Tina]

They apparently know who it was. This is a net loss, though, this story was dead in the water. Now it just makes the campaign look childish(even though they are in the right). Poor move imo. Unless the person responsible is directly involved in another campaign, it can't possibly help.

What are you talking about? It doesn't make the campaign look childish at all. Lairs need to be exposed. This type of manipulation needs to be challenged as often as possible for the good of society as a whole.

 

[Flirple]

Ron believes you own your reputation. He has certainly worked hard enough to keep his own spotless. I agree with him.

You can't own a reputation because a reputation only exists in the mind of someone else. It is not a finite resource.

 

[mport1]

A fair point. I don't know the details of the situation, whether the user misrepresented himself in correspondence with journalists, or what.

I agree that if there was no fraud, then this is a baseless suit.

If the creator was associated with the huntsman campaign, however, don't you think there is a fraudulent component? They obviously tried to pretend the video was from a source other than themselves -- either the RP campaign or RP supporters -- and this deception certainly caused material damage (again, if these are the facts of the case -- I don't know for sure).

Your second point does have merit.

 

[wgadget]

For god's sake, Ron is running for the office of president. Just last night he had a question about negative ads and he said they're fine if they're TRUE. This libelous video was billed as an ad by countless media, and god knows it wasn't close to being true.

 

[low preference guy]

lol at this thread turning into a debate about the propriety of defamation laws...

 

[RonPaulFever]

Four words:

GO GET 'EM, RON.

 

[low preference guy]

but when someone fraudulently poses as someone else in order to slander them, there's probably a reasonable libertarian case to be made for litigation

agree. the question is: should one reasonably expect that the video was made by Paul just because the name of the channel was NH4Paul? since no one verifies the veracity of channels name, i believe that's not a reasonable expectation.

 

[RonPaulFever]

Lairs need to be exposed.

Indeed. Let's start with the BatCave!

 

[UK4Paul]

Bottom line... it may deter others from doing the same.

That's a GOOD THING.

 

[wgadget]

agree. the question is: should one reasonably expect that the video was made by Paul just because the name of the channel was NH4Paul? since no one verifies the veracity of channels name, i believe that's not a reasonable expectation.

The point is, Ron's enemies took the bait and ran with it days before the NH primary. Dirty pool.

 

[nano1895]

lol at this thread turning into a debate about the propriety of defamation laws...

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Non-aggression principle was not violated by the maker of this dumb video. The campaign should not be trying to use the force of the state against them.

This is why ancappers really annoy me. The law is one of the few legitimate uses of the state.

 

[low preference guy]

The point is, Ron's enemies took the bait and ran with it days before the NH primary. Dirty pool.

i'm not against he lawsuit. i'm talking about the theoretical perfect libertarian society with mini-me. sorry it's off topic, but people are talking about it already.

 

[lucent]

This is why ancappers really annoy me. The law is one of the few legitimate uses of the state.

Luckily most of us aren't anarchists.

 

[Ilhaguru]

I thought Paul didn't believe in defamation. . .