Paul-Barr Meeting

[naga_warrior]

Those of you that are so focused on taking over the GOP I think you are missing a great deal in this entire thing. Ron Paul isn't attracting just Republicans. He is attracting all kinds of people. Not just because of his ideas, but because of how truthful he is. He is representing change, not only by his ideas, but by his motives. Personally I lean toward republican ideas, but I am not a republican. And I think that purely focusing on fixing the GOP is a waste of what has come from this. Not everyone that supports Ron Paul is a republican and I think that by focusing purely on the republican party you are alienating those people. Not everyone likes all of his ideas. But they in general can agree on his main ideas. Not necessarily the republican platform he stands for.

Now for my next point. I, like many of you, despise political parties. So, why again do we want to JUST rebuild the GOP? So we can once again have 2 strong parties? Even if you move the GOP back to what it stands for, guess what? Give it a little time and we will be back in the same position that we are currently in. I am young, and so I don't have the knowledge of all of you, but hasn't this been happening for a long time now? And there is always something that helps fix the current issues at hand, but it isn't forever. The only way to truly fix the issues at hand is to stop the 2 party system. But by propping up the same party that has absolutely ignored Ron Paul, is that really going to be for the better. Further enabling the 2 party system when there is a possibility to end the 2 party system forever. Sure it is a long shot, but isn't that shot worth taking?

Don't get me wrong. Taking over the GOP and fixing our problems short term is better then nothing. But I just don't agree that it should be the top priority.

 

[prlgrl]

Those of you that are so focused on taking over the GOP I think you are missing a great deal in this entire thing. Ron Paul isn't attracting just Republicans. He is attracting all kinds of people. Not just because of his ideas, but because of how truthful he is. He is representing change, not only by his ideas, but by his motives. Personally I lean toward republican ideas, but I am not a republican. And I think that purely focusing on fixing the GOP is a waste of what has come from this. Not everyone that supports Ron Paul is a republican and I think that by focusing purely on the republican party you are alienating those people. Not everyone likes all of his ideas. But they in general can agree on his main ideas. Not necessarily the republican platform he stands for.

Now for my next point. I, like many of you, despise political parties. So, why again do we want to JUST rebuild the GOP? So we can once again have 2 strong parties? Even if you move the GOP back to what it stands for, guess what? Give it a little time and we will be back in the same position that we are currently in. I am young, and so I don't have the knowledge of all of you, but hasn't this been happening for a long time now? And there is always something that helps fix the current issues at hand, but it isn't forever. The only way to truly fix the issues at hand is to stop the 2 party system. But by propping up the same party that has absolutely ignored Ron Paul, is that really going to be for the better. Further enabling the 2 party system when there is a possibility to end the 2 party system forever. Sure it is a long shot, but isn't that shot worth taking?

Don't get me wrong. Taking over the GOP and fixing our problems short term is better then nothing. But I just don't agree that it should be the top priority.

+1000

 

[SteveMartin]

+5000

 

[Banana]

Naga Warrior,

I do despise political parties, but ultimately they're there right now. My rationale for rebuilding GOP is this: By taking over the party, we make it much more friendlier toward other liberty candidates and will make their campaigns easier. It is my hope that we reach the critical mass to not just reform the party but move past two party system, but we need enough like minded people in positions to make this even possible.

It's easy to say, "Screw it. The system is against me, so I'll work outside it.", but the reality is that the system has a lock in the power balance and will oppose any outside influence. Infiltrating that system is, IMO, the best way to overturn the system and replace it with something much more positive and more open to everyone.

 

[naga_warrior]

Naga Warrior,

I do despise political parties, but ultimately they're there right now. My rationale for rebuilding GOP is this: By taking over the party, we make it much more friendlier toward other liberty candidates and will make their campaigns easier. It is my hope that we reach the critical mass to not just reform the party but move past two party system, but we need enough like minded people in positions to make this even possible.

It's easy to say, "Screw it. The system is against me, so I'll work outside it.", but the reality is that the system has a lock in the power balance and will oppose any outside influence. Infiltrating that system is, IMO, the best way to overturn the system and replace it with something much more positive and more open to everyone.

That is a fair point of view, but I would have to disagree with it. It is just my personal opinion, that it isn't going to work. As is seen on these forums, liberty minded people are being helped along by the revolution. Which is GREAT. But at the same time, if that is us in power, and we have the power to push candidates that we like, it is going to turn into its own political party(Which would be the republican party? So still 2 party system). Now if we did the same thing from outside, no matter how hard it is, that would create a 3rd party, and I believe once there is at least 3 major parties, more parties will follow.

Sadly, I wish everyone in the world was as honest as Ron Paul. But they aren't. When given power, they like the feel of it. If the revolution is successful in rebuilding the republican party, then I REALLY hope that I am wrong.

I really do. It is just that the two party system takes away any checks and balances that the founding fathers put into our government. If the people vote purely based on party, then there is no checks and balances as seen in our current government. (It really doesn't help that there isn't really 2 parties right now, there is 1 party, with the illusion of 2)

And it isn't just saying work out side it. But we are at a point where we COULD make a difference. A difference can mean several things. Even if Ron Paul doesn't win having a strong 3rd party showing can really help. Show the people, that a third party CAN win. No one will vote 3rd party because "they cant win". Which is dumb, but it is what has come of our nation. So just a good third party showing this year, which conditions are prime for. Note when I say third party, it is same thing as independent. I just mean someone that is no running under the 2 main parties.

 

[runderwo]

If the people vote purely based on party, then there is no checks and balances as seen in our current government.

Really the problem here is ignorance just as much as bipartisan hegemony. Work within the system to change it, and educate people while you are doing it. Throwing rocks at the system from the outside will continue to have the same results it has always had.

 

[Flirple]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

I think what you said is a pretty fair assessment of Barr. In a nutshell he is a watered down version of RP without the ironclad voting record spanning decades.

But on the other hand, that might be what makes him more palatable to conservatives and the media. I think he would get a lot of attention from people who don't like McCain as the GOP nominee.

I think Barr should absolutely do it and Ron should endorse him and campaign on his behalf. This will give Ron an excuse to continue to travel around the country and speak at large rallies to keep the rEVOLution stoked and growing for the long term while also helping Barr's campaign in the short term.

Here is an episode of Penn & Teller's Showtime show "Bullshit!" where they are talking about (in P&T's "irreverent" way) the patriot act and Big Brother surveillance and Bob Barr is used intermittently throughout it. He talks about how and why he voted for the patriot act and why he now regrets it.

Warning: not safe for work because of very strong language, nudity, and sexual content:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtt_f94ywRg (1:45-3:50)

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlXpNId5-WY&feature=related (3:20, 5:25, 7:38)

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uieFDTyB3GM&feature=related (5:06)