Party split already happening: Conservative Party VS Republican Party

[Original_Intent]

The Libertarian and Constitution party are almost identical as far as platforms...only difference is the constitution party is a little more churchy as far as saying the Constitution is founded on "christian principles" ...oh and CP actually has the balls to take a stance in defense of the rights of unborn babies, unlike the LP who are scared to tell us ...

They would be smart to join forces.


As for the GOP splitting?? Probably won't happen. If they sense they are losing thier base , and therefore thier viability, they will move further to the right to get them back. #1 priority in politics is ALWAYS self-preservation.

The two biggest differences afaik are the abortion issue (where I side with the CP) and the drug war issue (where I side with the LP). Since the abortion issue is more important to me than the drug war issue, I stick with the CP.

Also, the CP is far more principle based, they will SUPPORT a candidate of another party if his or her principles are correct, but the LP I have found to be very much more concerned about "building the party", their non-support of Ron Paul and their excuses for not doing so bear that out. Now I understand a lot of LP MEMBERS were huge supporters of Ron Paul, but I just thought the party leadership's lack of enthusiasm for Ron Paul and the reasons they gave ("it's against our by-laws, blah blah blah) showed a very strong partisan element that I didn't care for.

 

[New York For Paul]

Many regular donors are jumping ship and refusing to donate to the RNC because of this race.

The RNC should have stayed out. While the RNC donate hundreds of thousands to help a rino, many conservative donors are witholding hundreds of thousands of dollars to protest this action.

For many Newt Gingrich has destroyed his credibility. His fundraising is going to take a huge hit.

 

[torchbearer]

The two biggest differences afaik are the abortion issue (where I side with the CP) and the drug war issue (where I side with the LP). Since the abortion issue is more important to me than the drug war issue, I stick with the CP.

Also, the CP is far more principle based, they will SUPPORT a candidate of another party if his or her principles are correct, but the LP I have found to be very much more concerned about "building the party", their non-support of Ron Paul and their excuses for not doing so bear that out. Now I understand a lot of LP MEMBERS were huge supporters of Ron Paul, but I just thought the party leadership's lack of enthusiasm for Ron Paul and the reasons they gave ("it's against our by-laws, blah blah blah) showed a very strong partisan element that I didn't care for.

You do realize their is no position on abortion in the LP. People have this notion that it is a baby killer party, and that isn't true. That is fox news propoganda you need flushed from your brain.

 

[Original_Intent]

You do realize their is no position on abortion in the LP. People have this notion that it is a baby killer party, and that isn't true. That is fox news propoganda you need flushed from your brain.

I understand that their "no position" is a cop out "everyone decides for themselves" which is a default pro-choice position. Not going to get into a pro-choice vs. pro-abort vs. pro-life discussion, as I think that would derail the thread.

I don't watch Fox, and have gotten all of my understanding of the LP position from LP members themselves, not third parties.

 

[Original_Intent]

FOr those of you who pray for the demise of the GOP I hope you are ready for full blown socialism and prepare to say good bye to what is left of the constitution. TONES

Yep the current leadership of the GOP have certainly showed themselves to be defenders of the constitution - not. I don't pray for the death of the GOP so much as I pray for it to be taken back to its founding principles. I really don't want it to die anyway because then the Neocons would just scramble to take over whatever replaces it. I hope the party stays intact enough that they continue to fight to keep it on life support while all Americans of good intent move to a third and maybe even a fourth party.

 

[Pennsylvania]

When I was little, a "party" meant one thing. I'd like to reinstate that standard as soon as possible. We don't need more political parties, we need people with principles.

 

[torchbearer]

I understand that their "no position" is a cop out "everyone decides for themselves" which is a default pro-choice position. Not going to get into a pro-choice vs. pro-abort vs. pro-life discussion, as I think that would derail the thread.

I don't watch Fox, and have gotten all of my understanding of the LP position from LP members themselves, not third parties.

Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party, and is Pro-life. I guess you wouldn't have supported his 1988 presidential bid as a member of the baby-killer party.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I have noticed that many groups are now being created and calling themselves "Conservative". They are aligning themselves with the Tea Party movement, and are hoping to lead them.

The disturbing thing is, that the vast majority are obviously full-blown neo-conservatives trying to take the reigns once again...

 

[LDA]

There needs to be a party for fiscal conservatives/libertarians, without all the social conservatism crap. Social conservatism, in pretty much all forms, aims to restrict personal freedom. I'm not going to condone that.

The thing is, the GOP isn't going to be able to oust the religious nutjob wing of the party. They're too influential. So what do we do? Continue to let Democrats run the country into the ground?

 

[torchbearer]

There needs to be a party for fiscal conservatives/libertarians, without all the social conservatism crap. Social conservatism, in pretty much all forms, aims to restrict personal freedom. I'm not going to condone that.

The thing is, the GOP isn't going to be able to oust the religious nutjob wing of the party. They're too influential. So what do we do? Continue to let Democrats run the country into the ground?

problem with the nutjobs of the GOP, they vote on one issue alone. Abortion.
They don't care if its a neocon who is only paying lip-service. They will vote for the tyrant because of one issue alone. Doesn't matter if he wants to send their children to die in some foreign land for nothing.
Case in point- George Bush and the Republican majority congress. I bet everyone of those GOPers in congress gave lip-service to "pro-life", but when they could have done something about it. They did nothing.
I don't think the nutjobs of the GOP have figured it out yet. Some people on this forum haven't figured it out either.

 

[Original_Intent]

Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party, and is Pro-life. I guess you wouldn't have supported his 1988 presidential bid as a member of the baby-killer party.

I support the individual and the principles that they support. Bonus points if their voting record actually backs up what they say. Which is why I voted Chuck Baldwin (Ron Paul's endorsement) instead of the LP's candidate. But I am guessing you wouldn't have supported the presidential bid of the theocrat party.

 

[torchbearer]

I support the individual and the principles that they support. Bonus points if their voting record actually backs up what they say. Which is why I voted Chuck Baldwin (Ron Paul's endorsement) instead of the LP's candidate. But I am guessing you wouldn't have supported the presidential bid of the theocrat party.

Did you know Bob Barr is also Pro-Life?
What's up with the baby-killing party nominating Pro-lifers as their standard bearers? Must be that libertarians are also pro-life.
hmmm... Maybe you don't know as much as you claim to know. hmmmm

 

[rpfan2008]

This could make a Woodrow Wilson style victory for Obama in the next elections?

 

[Pauls' Revere]

FOr those of you who pray for the demise of the GOP I hope you are ready for full blown socialism and prepare to say good bye to what is left of the constitution. TONES

The GOP left me.

 

[Original_Intent]

Did you know Bob Barr is also Pro-Life?
What's up with the baby-killing party nominating Pro-lifers as their standard bearers? Must be that libertarians are also pro-life.
hmmm... Maybe you don't know as much as you claim to know. hmmmm

I realize there are pro-life libertarians (duh RP was one). What I don't like is their "non-position position" AS A PARTY, which is a default Pro-Choice position. I differentiate that from a Pro-Abort position which you seem to not comprehend as YOU continue to call the LP the baby killing party.

I challenge you to see any post of mine EVER where I have claimed the LP is pro-abort. YOU were the one who assigned that belief to me and then have been attacking me non-stop with ridicule for "not knowing as much as I think I know. hmmm". So torch, as much as I like and agree with you most of the time, on this discussion you need to pull YOUR head out of your preconceived notions and address what I say, not what you think I meant.

For instance my first post I stated what I considered the two major differences of the LP and the CP, one being the abortion issue, where I side with the CP position. Let me clarify for you since you seem to be having a comprehension problem today - I prefer an actively pro-life position to a "neutral" cop-out position of "do as ye will" - which is clearly a pro-choice position even if the LP lacks the intestinal fortitude to spell it out and instead weakly says "no position". Can you hear me now?

 

[torchbearer]

I realize there are pro-life libertarians (duh RP was one). What I don't like is their "non-position position" AS A PARTY, which is a default Pro-Choice position. I differentiate that from a Pro-Abort position which you seem to not comprehend as YOU continue to call the LP the baby killing party.

that is what the one-issue voters call the LP.
You voted for Baldwin because he was pro-life. yet his party wants to use government force to restrict gambling, prostitution, and drug use.

Bob Barr is Pro-life and pro-freedom.

Did you really make the best choice?

 

[Pauls' Revere]

i have noticed that many groups are now being created and calling themselves "conservative". They are aligning themselves with the tea party movement, and are hoping to lead them.

The disturbing thing is, that the vast majority are obviously full-blown neo-conservatives trying to take the reigns once again...

bravo zulu!

 

[Original_Intent]

that is what the one-issue voters call the LP.
You voted for Baldwin because he was pro-life. yet his party wants to use government force to restrict gambling, prostitution, and drug use.

Bob Barr is Pro-life and pro-freedom.

Did you really make the best choice?

Yep, because freedom to live outweighs by far the freedom to put drugs in your own body, the freedom to rent your body for sex, and the freedom to lose money to guess which color in a spinning wheel a little marble is going to land on.

So yes, you win on number of issues where you are right on, you lose on the big issue. I am not a one issue voter, but I am a priorities issue voter.

You might want to consider why Ron Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin over "pro-life" Bob Barr, who was obviously much more aligned (according to you) with Ron Paul's platform.

 

[specsaregood]

You voted for Baldwin because he was pro-life. yet his party wants to use government force to restrict gambling, prostitution, and drug use.
Bob Barr is Pro-life and pro-freedom.

I voted for Baldwin; because I didn't trust Barr or his fancy mustache.

I probably would have voted for him; but that press conference fiasco did him in for my vote as pointless as it (my act of voting) may have been.

 

[torchbearer]

I voted for Baldwin; because I didn't trust Barr or his fancy mustache.

I probably would have voted for him; but that press conference fiasco did him in for my vote as pointless as it (my act of voting) may have been.

I voted for Ron Paul in the general, because we went out of our way to put him on the ballot. LPers fighting to put a pro-life guy on the ballot.
I got to vote for the best man for the job.