Parents investigated by child protective services after giving birth at home

[Anti Federalist]

At least there's no risk of malpractice or you accidentally being given the wrong child, or worse, some psychopath kidnaps your baby straight out of the hospital nursery.

Not to mention the fact that, once you check into a hospital, you have essentially checked into a polite prison.

Any deviation from the approved norms, or, heaven forbid, trying to leave without permission, is likely to result in arrest, imprisonment or worse.

65 year old VietNam vet, Jonathan Montano, just before he died from injuries caused by police stomping his face for the "crime" of trying to leave a VA hospital where he was receiving shitty service.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/jonathan-montano/

 

[Nirvikalpa]

The majority of American births don't belong in hospitals - for the few that develop complications, such as placenta previa, etc etc, they do.

Maternal + child health in this country is abysmal. There are eight countries in the entire world with a rising maternal mortality rate and we are the ONLY first-world country on that list, and we spend the most on maternity and birth. Some of the other countries were Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Thailand...

We have 3x the maternal mortality rate of the UK, and 8x that of Iceland (who has the lowest maternal mortality rate). In 2009 the maternal mortality rate reached it's peak (so far) at 22 (per 100,000 births), and in 2013 the number was still very high, at 18.5 (per 100,000 births) - this is a stark contrast from the 1990 maternal mortality rate which was 12.4 (per 100,000 births).

Minority women are especially at risk. If I wasn't a white woman with enough scientific & medical knowledge to know when my fellows are bullshitting me and when to walk away... I wouldn't step foot into a hospital for any type of gestational care. I'd find a good midwife and call it a day.

 

[euphemia]

I wonder how the statistics are skewed in favor of all home births as opposed to those who *choose,* and *prepare for,* a home birth. How many had other complications or were poor/ill/drug addicted?

In my circle of friends, many gave birth at home to very healthy babies. They have very good prenatal care at home and are well prepared for birth. I do not personally know anyone who has lost a baby at home.

The next thing you know, they will be ordering parents to bottle feed their kids and prematurely force feed food to their kids.

 

[specsaregood]

At least there's no risk of malpractice or you accidentally being given the wrong child, or worse, some psychopath kidnaps your baby straight out of the hospital nursery.

Nowadays, they attach a baby tracker bracelet on the leg as soon as they are born. It serves to identify and secure. If the ankle bracelet is broken an alarm is immediately sounded and all the doors and elevators anywhere near the mother/baby labor/delivery area locked down. If an ankle bracelet (attached to baby) tries to leave the area, the same thing happens. The chances of those things you listed happening --unless you are meaning govt agents in regards to kidnapping-- nowadays are slim to none. Heck, a couple years back some broad with stolen valid dr. credentials/access pass etc tried to take a baby at the hospital my kid was delivered at and she didn't get more than 50ft from the baby area.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I wonder how the statistics are skewed in favor of all home births as opposed to those who *choose,* and *prepare for,* a home birth. How many had other complications or were poor/ill/drug addicted?

In my circle of friends, many gave birth at home to very healthy babies. They have very good prenatal care at home and are well prepared for birth. I do not personally know anyone who has lost a baby at home.

The next thing you know, they will be ordering parents to bottle feed their kids and prematurely force feed food to their kids.

and mandatory RFID...for your own good, don't you know, mundane.

 

[specsaregood]

We have 3x the maternal mortality rate of the UK, and 8x that of Iceland (who has the lowest maternal mortality rate). In 2009 the maternal mortality rate reached it's peak (so far) at 22 (per 100,000 births), and in 2013 the number was still very high, at 18.5 (per 100,000 births) - this is a stark contrast from the 1990 maternal mortality rate which was 12.4 (per 100,000 births).

I'd suspect that has something to do with the growing obesity problem in America and not necessarily they care provided for at the hospital.

 

[Kotin]

The majority of American births don't belong in hospitals - for the few that develop complications, such as placenta previa, etc etc, they do.

Maternal + child health in this country is abysmal. There are eight countries in the entire world with a rising maternal mortality rate and we are the ONLY first-world country on that list, and we spend the most on maternity and birth. Some of the other countries were Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Thailand...

We have 3x the maternal mortality rate of the UK, and 8x that of Iceland (who has the lowest maternal mortality rate). In 2009 the maternal mortality rate reached it's peak (so far) at 22 (per 100,000 births), and in 2013 the number was still very high, at 18.5 (per 100,000 births) - this is a stark contrast from the 1990 maternal mortality rate which was 12.4 (per 100,000 births).

Minority women are especially at risk. If I wasn't a white woman with enough scientific & medical knowledge to know when my fellows are bullshitting me and when to walk away... I wouldn't step foot into a hospital for any type of gestational care. I'd find a good midwife and call it a day.

/thread

 

[Cleaner44]

The odds of an infant surviving an home birth are dramatically less than the odds of an infant being born in a hospital. That's just a cold hard fact.

I'm with Specs on this. Fucking idiot flower children, casually wandering into the ER for a check up after six days or so? Did they have no pediatrician selected? They weren't going to give their baby any medical attention, except then they did?

SMFH - these are not victims, these are idiots. These are the people that the state feeds on, and they make life harder for the rest of us.

Are you calling this 22 year old girl a flower child? This girl that would have been born 25 years after the Summer of Love? A black girl born in 1992 doesn't really strike me as a hippy, so I am wondering where you are getting your information. Do you have some info regarding her that you want to share or are you just projecting your own hatred from your generation onto her?

I am also wondering about these numbers about infants surviving an home birth. Even if the odd go from .00001% to .00003%, a dramatic tripling of odds, that still isn't something that is scary to me. Can you provide some real data to elaborate on your position?

I certainly would rather have Ron Paul on hand to deliver my baby, rather than go it alone, but it doesn't take a village to have a baby and the kids don't belong to whole communities.

 

[Anti Federalist]

/thread

Agreed and +rep.

 

[ghengis86]

Oh yes they are victims. Guesss what? That baby isn't yours, mine or anyone else's but those parents. I'm sure there are plenty of things that you do every single day that any one of us might think is stupid. In fact, I'm quite sure of it. But that doesn't mean the busybodies need to kick down your door, and it doesn't mean that YOU make life harder for the rest of us. The fucking busybodies are the ones who make life harder, and what the HELL are you doing making excuses for them?

There's a difference between advocating against home birthing versus at a hospital and support government mandated home visits and check ups.

At least that's how I read it

 

[A Son of Liberty]

The odds of an infant surviving an home birth are dramatically less than the odds of an infant being born in a hospital. That's just a cold hard fact.

I'm with Specs on this. Fucking idiot flower children, casually wandering into the ER for a check up after six days or so? Did they have no pediatrician selected? They weren't going to give their baby any medical attention, except then they did?

SMFH - these are not victims, these are idiots. These are the people that the state feeds on, and they make life harder for the rest of us.

Oh yes they are victims. Guesss what? That baby isn't yours, mine or anyone else's but those parents. I'm sure there are plenty of things that you do every single day that any one of us might think is stupid. In fact, I'm quite sure of it. But that doesn't mean the busybodies need to kick down your door, and it doesn't mean that YOU make life harder for the rest of us. The fucking busybodies are the ones who make life harder, and what the HELL are you doing making excuses for them?

There's a difference between advocating against home birthing versus at a hospital and support government mandated home visits and check ups.

At least that's how I read it

READ. She said they aren't victims, and that they make life harder for the rest of us. They are victims, and they don't make life harder for the rest of us, the busybodies do. You know, just like I said.

 

[specsaregood]

/thread

how is that /thread? Is this thread about the pro/cons of homebirths? Or infant mortality rates? I thought it was about the police state and what happens when you WILLINGLY invite it into your life as this couple did.

I reread it and here is what I surmise:

1. These people didn't have insurance.

2. They didn't have a pediatrician lined up.

3. The mother got ZERO prenatal care. Meaning she skipped all the normal checkups, sonograms and testing that most women nowadays undergo during pregnancy to detect problems.

4. After having the kid and no pre-care, they decided they'd go to the hospital and get a free medical care and have their kid undergo evaluation.

5. They went to an ER since they don't know any doctors and didn't have any means to pay anyways. The ER, upon figuring out that they had a child with no doctor and no prenatal care and not equipped to do a full checkup on a newborn decided to refer them out to CHOP. If they had done a checkup and said the kid was fine and send them home and a week/month later something came up they'd be facing a malpractice and/or liability lawsuit.

6. They used an ambulance because that's what hospitals do. The kid was under their care, they couldn't very well send the kid on a bus with the parents -- lest they face a malpractice/liability lawsuit if something happened. If you are under their care and their responsibility you are going to ride in an ambulance. If the parents had left AMA, I'm guessing they would have lost their CHOP referral.

7. Once at CHOP, they found the same thing: a kid with no prenatal care, no previous testing and they needed to do all the standard tests they could or were missed because if they didn't they'd be facing the possiblity of malpractice or liability lawsuits.

As to CPS. I can't blame the hospital workers for reporting them. Here you have a kid that by most medical standards had been neglected. At the very least, I would think the CPS people would help get the kid registered for Medicaid and get a doctor. Heck, It might even have been the hospital's primary motivation for reporting them as to get them covered by some sort of state insurance.

If you believe in a social welfare safety net, then what happened should be expected. And I can hardly blame the hospital staff from CYA.

feel free to correct me if I over assumed anything.

 

[69360]

For all of human history women gave birth at home. Going to a hospital when you are healthy just to give birth is a recent development.

Humans have been abusing children all this time, who knew?


I actually do agree the parents probably had no insurance or money to pay for a checkup. Why else would they take a healthy baby to the ER?

The should have just found a sympathetic old school pediatrician to check the baby over for the basics. Doctors like that still exist.

 

[Nirvikalpa]

Did you read her post? She had prenatal care initially but she decided to stop. That's not "ZERO prenatal care."

Also, no... no no no no there was no need for an ambulance escort. They were denied release papers (for no medical reason, given the information in the article and others I've read), which is the only reason they were "under their care." Should have been an easy AMA, sign a paper, release care, and instruct them that any issues they have here on out was their responsibility, including any "injury and death" and "highly suggest you go to CHOP."

CHOP ambulances are expensive and seriously state of the art and equipped to handle multi-hour rides... why, when hospital reports show baby is 100% healthy would you request a neonate specialty ambulance? Waste of time, waste of money, waste of resources.

Plain and simple, until I read an article or receive more news on this otherwise.

 

[Kotin]

how is that /thread? Is this thread about the pro/cons of homebirths? Or infant mortality rates? I thought it was about the police state and what happens when you WILLINGLY invite it into your life as this couple did.

I reread it and here is what I surmise:

1. These people didn't have insurance.

2. They didn't have a pediatrician lined up.

3. The mother got ZERO prenatal care. Meaning she skipped all the normal checkups, sonograms and testing that most women nowadays undergo during pregnancy to detect problems.

4. After having the kid and no pre-care, they decided they'd go to the hospital and get a free medical care and have their kid undergo evaluation.

5. They went to an ER since they don't know any doctors and didn't have any means to pay anyways. The ER, upon figuring out that they had a child with no doctor and no prenatal care and not equipped to do a full checkup on a newborn decided to refer them out to CHOP. If they had done a checkup and said the kid was fine and send them home and a week/month later something came up they'd be facing a malpractice and/or liability lawsuit.

6. They used an ambulance because that's what hospitals do. The kid was under their care, they couldn't very well send the kid on a bus with the parents -- lest they face a malpractice/liability lawsuit if something happened. If you are under their care and their responsibility you are going to ride in an ambulance. If the parents had left AMA, I'm guessing they would have lost their CHOP referral.

7. Once at CHOP, they found the same thing: a kid with no prenatal care, no previous testing and they needed to do all the standard tests they could or were missed because if they didn't they'd be facing the possiblity of malpractice or liability lawsuits.

As to CPS. I can't blame the hospital workers for reporting them. Here you have a kid that by most medical standards had been neglected. At the very least, I would think the CPS people would help get the kid registered for Medicaid and get a doctor. Heck, It might even have been the hospital's primary motivation for reporting them as to get them covered by some sort of state insurance.

If you believe in a social welfare safety net, then what happened should be expected. And I can hardly blame the hospital staff from CYA.

feel free to correct me if I over assumed anything.

heh let me rephrase that:

"I was interested in someone summing up the home birth safety issue and that has been done to my satisfaction, /thread for me.

 

[unknown]

Not for nothin, dont let anyone know youre pregnant.

Hide out for the last couple months, pop the kid out at home and then emerge after a couple weeks like "what!?"

 

[satchelmcqueen]

totally wrong on so many levels.

The odds of an infant surviving an home birth are dramatically less than the odds of an infant being born in a hospital. That's just a cold hard fact.

I'm with Specs on this. Fucking idiot flower children, casually wandering into the ER for a check up after six days or so? Did they have no pediatrician selected? They weren't going to give their baby any medical attention, except then they did?

SMFH - these are not victims, these are idiots. These are the people that the state feeds on, and they make life harder for the rest of us.

 

[fisharmor]

feel free to correct me if I over assumed anything.

You paint a fanciful picture, but not one of parents who know what a warrant is and when to ask to see one.

But you pretty much invited us all to dismiss your ideas the second you insinuated that they somehow have fewer rights because they are "illegal".

 

[amy31416]

Save your breath. I can produce about 20 studies that prove that the odds of a newborn dying are dramatically higher when the baby is born at home, and that is despite the fact that women with high risk pregnancies usually opt for the hospital.

That is NOT a coincidence.

I didn't like some aspects of my hospital experience, but I don't regret it. My cousin-in-law did a home birth (both kids are about the same age), and her daughter stopped breathing for a few minutes after being born, and she still barely speaks at 3 years old.

Obviously not a scientific study, but her daughter needed more medical help at birth aside from a doula rubbing her back.

 

[asurfaholic]

Ok

So what if the baby was breached?

The mother wouldn't know and there could have been major complications in her home birth plan... I mean I support her right to make those decisions herself without government harassment..

But it seems irresponsible. Having an ultrasound should be a must-have for any responsible person wishing to have a home birth.

My wife and I were planning a very natural birth of our daughter, but as time got close she decided she wanted to wedge herself butt down. I don't want to think about what could have happened if we went into a home birth blind. Went from planning a natural birth to preparing for surgury (c section) in a matter of weeks.