Other than the Presidential Election which is the best way to fight for our freedom?

[dude58677]

A) State Nullification: Advantage- Allows a whole State to rebel against an unconstitutional law. Disadvantage: Needs to get a whole State legislature and Governor to agree. Also subject to grandstanding.

B) Jury Nullification: Advantages- Allows a single person to nullify an unconstitutional law by voting to acquit and forcing a mistrial and if lucky even an aquittal. Disadvantage- Wont protect you from civil asset forfeiture laws.

C) Militia: Advantages: Advantages- Terrifies public officials. Disadvantages- Could get you killed and if you don't like violence could get someone else killed.

D) Civil Disobedience: Advantages- might live a free life if no one knows you are disobeying the law and will make a public stand if they do. Disadvantages- Could land you time in jail given you have only yourself to protect. Might get you killed it facing a true tyrant.

 

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

 

[staerker]

Technology. Certain advances have the potential to make governments obsolete.

 

[EBounding]

Probably state nullification. Jury nullification would only be effective if hundreds of millions of people were educated about it and supported constitutional/limited government. With state nullification you only need to "persuade" a few hundred legislators.

 

[Ronin Truth]

(Hint: FREEDOM, ain't never coming out of Washinton D.C..)

 

[Dianne]

I would have had "Educate those around you, particularly the young" as the first item on the list. That's the only value I ever saw in the candidacy of Ron Paul.

I agree with education. Spread the word everywhere, including the internet; while the internet is still available to us.

For the purpose of this poll, I chose State Nullification. In-fact, Sanctuary Cities for felony illegal immigrants have set a precedent for the entire country to ignore Federal law. So let's do it.

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

A) State Nullification: Advantage- Allows a whole State to rebel against an unconstitutional law. Disadvantage: Needs to get a whole State legislature and Governor to agree. Also subject to grandstanding.

B) Jury Nullification: Advantages- Allows a single person to nullify an unconstitutional law by voting to acquit and forcing a mistrial and if lucky even an aquittal. Disadvantage- Wont protect you from civil asset forfeiture laws.

C) Militia: Advantages: Advantages- Terrifies public officials. Disadvantages- Could get you killed and if you don't like violence could get someone else killed.

D) Civil Disobedience: Advantages- might live a free life if no one knows you are disobeying the law and will make a public stand if they do. Disadvantages- Could land you time in jail given you have only yourself to protect. Might get you killed it facing a true tyrant.

Dude, none of those will work, and your analysis are accurate. But it is good you've posted the thread with its shakedown of options. People need to see it in the light you present it in.

The infiltrated government has all of those bases covered. The one that is not mentioned and is mechanistically open under law is presented here.

Our only way out is critical thinking and decision to support that which we all have in common. In this case, the prime principles of constitutional intent. The process and perspective on it is presented here in these 2 threads.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?471555-A-lawful-and-peaceful-revolution

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...w-The-Masters-Of-The-Congress-And-Courts-Work

This aspect has been covered by the infiltrated government by control over mass media of all types using misleading, disinformation, misinformation and general distractions that that have corrupted our populations. They are under informed, fearful of being manipulated, condoned to move in flock/herd actions controlled by mass media.

Add to this the covert infiltrators and other groups with agendas to prevent any effective unification here and other forums, and it is simply up to the individual to use their capacity to conduct critical thinking, read the Declaration of Independence, Article V of the constitution and agree upon prime constitutional intent to create a front of legal precedent which establishes the people as "the rightful masters of the congress and the courts.

This agreement:

Do you agree and accept that the framers of the founding documents intended for us to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights?

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable the unity adequate to effectively alter or abolish?

Is the key. By making it we identify ourselves as sincere Americans unconditionally in support of our rights and freedoms and established by the 1787 constitution carrying the intents of the Declaration of Independence before it.

It is by the incompetent and unaccountable examples that people here, who are not using the product of critical thinking to justify, simply making the agreement. Those that I've asked, and failed to make it, have been asked WHY? What sacrifice do they make by making this agreement? They do not even answer that question.

Now there are those like wiz watson who are obsessed with their own agenda and facetiously make the agreement seeking capitulation with their agenda. In wiz's case, its religious. HVAC refuses to explain why he does not just simply agree, as does gunny. All prominent posters act in this fashion. This is herd mentality or subversion, not independent thinking accountable to facts.

Freedom is independence, Independent, critical thinking is the beginning of freedom. Can you do it?

 

[wizardwatson]

Dude, none of those will work, and your analysis are accurate. But it is good you've posted the thread with its shakedown of options. People need to see it in the light you present it in.

The infiltrated government has all of those bases covered. The one that is not mentioned and is mechanistically open under law is presented here.

Our only way out is critical thinking and decision to support that which we all have in common. In this case, the prime principles of constitutional intent. The process and perspective on it is presented here in these 2 threads.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?471555-A-lawful-and-peaceful-revolution

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...w-The-Masters-Of-The-Congress-And-Courts-Work

This aspect has been covered by the infiltrated government by control over mass media of all types using misleading, disinformation, misinformation and general distractions that that have corrupted our populations. They are under informed, fearful of being manipulated, condoned to move in flock/herd actions controlled by mass media.

Add to this the covert infiltrators and other groups with agendas to prevent any effective unification here and other forums, and it is simply up to the individual to use their capacity to conduct critical thinking, read the Declaration of Independence, Article V of the constitution and agree upon prime constitutional intent to create a front of legal precedent which establishes the people as "the rightful masters of the congress and the courts.

This agreement:

Do you agree and accept that the framers of the founding documents intended for us to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights?

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable the unity adequate to effectively alter or abolish?

Is the key. By making it we identify ourselves as sincere Americans unconditionally in support of our rights and freedoms and established by the 1787 constitution carrying the intents of the Declaration of Independence before it.

It is by the incompetent and unaccountable examples that people here, who are not using the product of critical thinking to justify, simply making the agreement. Those that I've asked, and failed to make it, have been asked WHY? What sacrifice do they make by making this agreement? They do not even answer that question.

Now there are those like wiz watson who are obsessed with their own agenda and facetiously make the agreement seeking capitulation with their agenda. In wiz's case, its religious. HVAC refuses to explain why he does not just simply agree, as does gunny. All prominent posters act in this fashion. This is herd mentality or subversion, not independent thinking accountable to facts.

Freedom is independence, Independent, critical thinking is the beginning of freedom. Can you do it?

So, I waited around for over 3 years just to "facetiously agree" so that you would capitulate with MY agenda?

Dang.

It almost worked.

EDIT: For the record I do hope all people turn to Christ. So in a way you're right. But I didn't "facetiously agree". Well, maybe a little facetious, but that's only because I take the Lord more serious than anything else. But the agreement was sincere.

 

[Keith and stuff]

E. Join the Free State Project (sign up here fspsign.org ) and do all of the above or something else that helps create liberty in our lifetime.

Has Ron Paul Interested You in Liberty in Your Lifetime?
Find out why he supports the Free State Project!
http://old.freestateproject.org/intro/ron_paul

 

[fisharmor]

LOL this thread is already a train wreck.

Voluntayist hit the nail on the head and there isnt anything else to say.
Then staerker proves his point by assuming there was a time when the state wasn't obsolete,
and of course we get CAB trying to get us to think critically, as if many of us haven't already critically thought our way right past his tired ideas.

What can you all do? How about paying attention to this simple statement:

You're not ever going to draw us back, and you're not ever going to stop us from poaching your pals.

 

[staerker]

LOL this thread is already a train wreck.

Voluntayist hit the nail on the head and there isnt anything else to say.
Then staerker proves his point by assuming there was a time when the state wasn't obsolete,
and of course we get CAB trying to get us to think critically, as if many of us haven't already critically thought our way right past his tired ideas.

What can you all do? How about paying attention to this simple statement:

You're not ever going to draw us back, and you're not ever going to stop us from poaching your pals.

?

The State has competitive utility, despite being immoral.

The world has always been, and always will be, a free "market" of ideas. Right now the State is winning.

Despite statelessness's current benefits, technology has the potential to uttering wipe from the universe the very idea of a need for a State (by the average non-authoritarian.)

This method is a lot more effective than educating and re-educating generations and generations of people who don't care one whit either way.

Attack the root cause: the need (albeit misplaced.)

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Other elections: Congress, State, and local.

Of the options in the poll, state nullification would be best, but this requires winning lots of state elections first.

The others are pretty much useless IMO.

 

[AngryCanadian]

I would have had "Educate those around you, particularly the young" as the first item on the list. That's the only value I ever saw in the candidacy of Ron Paul.

Bribing with money always seems to work otherwise your going to waste educating.

 

[cajuncocoa]

What are the only two things that have EVER gotten them to listen to any group making demands? Either violence or civil disobedience. Since I would never advocate violence (I'm a libertarian) I have to advocate for civil disobedience. Disrupt the flow of everyday life in a non-threatening way....but disrupt it. That's the ONLY way they listen.

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

So, I waited around for over 3 years just to "facetiously agree" so that you would capitulate with MY agenda?

Dang.

It almost worked.

EDIT: For the record I do hope all people turn to Christ. So in a way you're right. But I didn't "facetiously agree". Well, maybe a little facetious, but that's only because I take the Lord more serious than anything else. But the agreement was sincere.

Well then get serious and stop preaching.

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

What are the only two things that have EVER gotten them to listen to any group making demands? Either violence or civil disobedience. Since I would never advocate violence (I'm a libertarian) I have to advocate for civil disobedience. Disrupt the flow of everyday life in a non-threatening way....but disrupt it. That's the ONLY way they listen.

Historically there is a streak of accuracy in what you say. But there is also a narrow but solid streak of uncertainty because America and a constitution such as it has, with the basis it has has never existed in history before 226 years ago.

Article V is is a very real sense, a lawful revolution by the states against the federal government. It is totally intended to be a peaceful event.

But it has to be done right, and "the rightful masters of the congress and the courts", the people, are the only ones that can define constitutional intent. Their solid and explicit agreement is required. That is why I'm doing what I'm doing here.

If we do it right, every single REAL law enforcement officer will know it and as long as we run with due process they will be with us. It WILL take an impressive display of unity however.

I tried to explain this to OWS, way too controlled by socialists to get it. That's why law enforcement walked all over them.

The cops have all taken an oath, this movement is what can hold them too it.

Unity that is very sincerely based in agreement upon constitutional intent is powerful in the context of large groups and an oath with parallel intent. When a unified group starts up with the simple logic which shows state legislators MUST agree with the movement using states to alter or abolish, OR the people are deprived of that right. Legislators must agree because that is the only way Amendments ratified will have sure constitutional intent.

It can only fail if you fail to unify. It will not be easy, but it will work and after it gets moving it will be very uplifting and move fast.

I recommend many small 4th of July parades in neighborhoods across America next year. No fireworks, only discussion and sharing about constitutional intent. A speech every other house in a 2 block long parade by one of the people of the neighborhood who understand well how the agreements work with legal process.

As I post in the thread about our lawful and peaceful revolution, these are things children can understand and understand them correctly. At about 9 years of age, over a few months of teaching that is confirmed by specific questions to teachers in their schools.

Probably a good idea to tel them not to talk about the whole concept, just confirm critical aspects. They need to understand that they and there parents are going to be working with many other people to correct government. The truth is very important to give to children, but it protects itself, so make that clear.

Or it could be delivered to the school officials and other parents by a group of 5 or more familes that understands it well at a PTA meeting . Give them a heads up, not to mess with the kids developing understanding, just confirm the facts the kids ask about.

America is coming out of a dark age.

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

Other elections: Congress, State, and local.

Of the options in the poll, state nullification would be best, but this requires winning lots of state elections first.

Which is not very far from what is proposed for a lawful and peaceful revolution. Another way to see it is how the masters of the congress and courts work in the states

 

[wizardwatson]

Well then get serious and stop preaching.

Matthew 16: 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Your constant focus on your hatred of my preaching only confirms the spirit of the anti-christ you carry.

No doubt future revisions of the 1st amendment will remove religious freedom and future statutes will outlaw it all together.

As it will "violate the Greater Purpose of Free Speech" as defined by you know-better-than-the-sheep smarties.

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

Your constant focus on your hatred of my preaching only confirms the spirit of the anti-christ you carry.

You've been trying hard to invoke hatred, but it's not there. Your saying does not make it there as bad as you want it to justify your position.

The preaching is not functional. It divides with anachronistic posturing.

You use fear, not love.

Humanity has need of science not beliefs.

I belive science can show us God within ourselves, but you are too confused and disoriented by just the beginnings of it which basically originate within existing logic, science and medicine.

http://algoxy.com/law/treasonresist/graphicunconscious/oneyearofyourlife-S1.pdf

http://algoxy.com/law/treasonresist/graphicunconscious/onedayofyourlife-S2.pdf

http://algoxy.com/law/treasonresist/graphicunconscious/onedayofyourlife-S3.pdf

 

[Christopher A. Brown]

Technology. Certain advances have the potential to make governments obsolete.

Are you referring to direct democracy?