Only President Trump could get the Canadians to vote for an exit to the USMCA, and he did it brilliantly

[Invisible Man]

Thats like saying its propaganda to say beating a dead horse unless someone is literally beating a dead horse.

It's even worse, because the expression beating a dead horse, even in its figurative sense, is generally applied to something bad, whereas the expression "stealing jobs" is applied to something good for the purpose of making it sound like it's bad.

 

[TheTexan]

Which is why it's misleading. It's shear propaganda. Jobs are not things that can be stolen. Nor can they be shipped overseas. Those expressions are nonsense, gibberish, gobbledygoop, and deceptive cant. People only say them so that they can avoid having to explain what's wrong with something they don't like because they don't have an explanation.

There's nothing misleading about saying China is stealing jobs. Everyone knows what it means.

You're choosing to get offended by that, because you want to enforce some kind of ridiculous constraint that people can only use "stealing" in the context of a crime.

Well I hate to break it to you, but people use "stealing" in non-criminal contexts all the time.

It's a lot simpler to say that China is stealing jobs, than to say "China is engaging in manipulative trade practices which is perceived to result in their economic benefit at our economic expense."

It's a shitload easier just to say China is stealing jobs. Everyone knows what it means.

 

[Invisible Man]

Imagine holding the door open for someone, and then hearing them complain that you stole their door opening from them.

 

[TheTexan]

Imagine holding the door open for someone, and then hearing them complain that you stole their door opening from them.

I'm sure someone somewhere has said that before.

And all parties involved were not offended by its usage, somehow.

 

[Invisible Man]

There's nothing misleading about saying China is stealing jobs. Everyone knows what it means.

The thing that people think it means is nonsense. It's not just about using figurative language. It's about the fact that it's nonsense. Even what people think they mean by it is a thing that makes no sense. They imagine that there exists some finite supply of jobs, so that when one person does a job, that leaves fewer jobs for other people to do. People who talk this way think they "know" what the expression means, but the thing they think they "know" isn't true. What they believe is happening when they accuse China of "stealing jobs" isn't actually happening. The whole point of using the word "stealing" this way is to make it sound undesirable.

 

[Invisible Man]

I'm sure someone somewhere has said that before.

And all parties involved were not offended by its usage, somehow.

I wouldn't be offended either. But I would deem that person an idiot.

Same thing here.

There's no offense taken, at least not by me. But I'm right .

 

[nikcers]

It's even worse, because the expression beating a dead horse, even in its figurative sense, is generally applied to something bad, whereas the expression "stealing jobs" is applied to something good for the purpose of making it sound like it's bad.

Not necessarily bad just something that's a waste of time. Beating a dead horse is sometimes a wild goose chase.

 

[Invisible Man]

Not necessarily bad just something that's a waste of time. Beating a dead horse is sometimes a wild goose chase.

I guess you would know.

 

[TheTexan]

The thing that people think it means is nonsense. It's not just about using figurative language. It's about the fact that it's nonsense.

If you want to address the points then address the points.

But this semantics stuff is just pointless.

If you want to rewrite the meaning of stealing, take up your complaint with whoever invented the phrase of "stealing ideas"

Even what people think they mean by it is a thing that makes no sense. They imagine that there exists some finite supply of jobs, so that when one person does a job, that leaves fewer jobs for other people to do. People who talk this way think they "know" what the expression means, but the thing they think they "know" isn't true. The whole point of using the word "stealing" this way is to make it sound undesirable.

Again, they say "stealing jobs" because it's a shitload shorter than "engaging in manipulative trade practices that are perceived to result in their economic benefit at our economic expense".

This shit is about as stupid as about half the time I use some collective noun I get a lecture on collectivism about how everyone is an individual - ya we get it lol

 

[nikcers]

I guess you would know.

Sometimes I beat a dead horse and sometimes I like to kill two birds with one stone but other times I rather enjoy a wild goose chase because it allows me to really think about what I am doing and if its the right thing.

 

[Invisible Man]

Again, they say "stealing jobs" because it's a shitload shorter than "engaging in manipulative trade practices that are perceived to result in their economic benefit at our economic expense".

Perceived. But that perception is wrong. And the fact that they have to resort to saying something as dumb as "stealing jobs" to express that only highlights its wrongness. While you've been getting sidetracked on your lectures about using figurative language that really have nothing to do with anything, that has been my point.

 

[TheTexan]

Perceived. But that perception is wrong. And the fact that they have to resort to saying something as dumb as "stealing jobs" to express that only highlights its wrongness. While you've been getting sidetracked on your lectures about using figurative language that really have nothing to do with anything, that has been my point.

It's pretty much indisputable at this point that China's trade practices have severely eroded our manufacturing base.

So I'm just gonna keep saying China is stealing our jobs, because it's true.

 

[nikcers]

Perceived. But that perception is wrong. And the fact that they have to resort to saying something as dumb as "stealing jobs" to express that only highlights its wrongness. While you've been getting sidetracked on your lectures about using figurative language that really have nothing to do with anything, that has been my point.

Perception is reality. Everyone saying not to believe what your eyes can see is just gaslighting you.

You cant even get antibiotics if Communist China gives you a bad social credit score because you havent been a good Communist.

Everyone knows that.

 

[CCTelander]

Perceived. But that perception is wrong. And the fact that they have to resort to saying something as dumb as "stealing jobs" to express that only highlights its wrongness. While you've been getting sidetracked on your lectures about using figurative language that really have nothing to do with anything, that has been my point.

.

It’s not just that it's”dumb” or nonsensical, it’s that it’s inflammatory and evocative of extremely negative connotations, and that it’s deliberately chosen for exactly that reason, very often in an effort to mislead or deceive. In other words, it’s pure propaganda.

But whatever. People tend to use language very imprecisely. In everyday life that’s not usually a problem, but when talking about issues and policies that can negatively affect, often severely so, hundreds of millions of people it becomes much more important.

 

[TheTexan]

It’s not just that it's”dumb” or nonsensical, it’s that it’s inflammatory and evocative of extremely negative connotations, and that it’s deliberately chosen for exactly that reason, very often in an effort to mislead or deceive. In other words, it’s pure propaganda.

All language is intended to convey meaning.

Is it deliberately deceptive? No - it is not. That's the difference between propaganda, and communication.

 

[nikcers]

.

It’s not just that it's”dumb” or nonsensical, it’s that it’s inflammatory and evocative of extremely negative connotations, and that it’s deliberately chosen for exactly that reason, very often in an effort to mislead or deceive. In other words, it’s pure propaganda.

But whatever. People tend to use language very imprecisely. In everyday life that’s not usually a problem, but when talking about issues and policies that can negatively affect, often severely so, hundreds of millions of people it becomes much more important.

Its meant to be negative and people know what people are saying when they say China is stealing jobs.

China has ruined millions of lives with their trade practices. Its one of the main reasons why Trump got elected.

You can go back to Congressman Ron Paul from several decades ago when he was against it. He said China would destroy our steel industry and take their jobs.

 

[acptulsa]

All language is intended to convey meaning.

Is it deliberately deceptive? No - it is not. That's the difference between propaganda, and communication.

Not in my book.

It's spin. It's manipulation. It deliberately tries to force a conclusion by treating an opinion about something as if it's a valid definition.

And that's what the difference between communication and propaganda really is.

 

[TheTexan]

Not in my book.

It's spin. It's manipulation. It deliberately tries to force a conclusion by treating an opinion about something as if it's a valid definition.

And that's what the difference between communication and propaganda really is.

You're entitled to your opinion. It is your book, after all

I'm gonna keep using the phrase "stealing jobs" because it is accurate... and apparently, inflammatory.

 

[acptulsa]

I never accused you of being something other than a propagandist and a troll, did I?

 

[Swordsmyth]

There's no such thing as stealing jobs.

Yes, there is.
When someone not eligible takes the opportunity from those who are.