One important thing I realized while caucusing last night...

[Lindsey]

He does need to emphasize that his 1 trillion dollar budget cut the first year is the ONLY thing that will save Social Security.

This.

 

[JK/SEA]

Doesn't matter who or how old people are that vote in these 'straw polls'. It only matters who signs up to be a county delegate. Seems most everyone is too focused on the vote counts the media talks about, instead of focusing on how many COUNTY delegate seats were filled.

For example. Last election cycle, Huckabee did real well in getting 'votes' in the primaries and caucuses. BUT Ron Paul supporters DOMINATED huckabee for delegates. You can get millions of votes but no COUNTY delegates if your supporters leave for home before delegates are selected. Makes the point of the million votes you get almost meaningless except to the media, and the ill-informed.

These COUNTY delegates then go to their COUNTY GOP Convention, and thats where you then compete to become a STATE Delegate to your GOP State Convention. I look at it as though i was climbing a ladder. In Washington State, i became a State Delegate, but i had to become a COUNTY Delegate 1st. If i can do this, you can too. You have to committ yourself, and plan accordingly. This is why we as Ron Paul supporters in 2008 had nearly 40% of the State delegates, but it wasn't enough to take over the convention. We tried, but boy, was it close.

 

[j3nn]

I think the problem in general is that Ron Paul doesn't elaborate on his thoughts and policies very much and the younger generation tends to use the internet to do more cross-checking and research, as well as attend college classes that weren't available 40 years ago. The older generation still relies on TV news, conversation, and print articles. None of which are inherently bad unless they are biased, corrupt, or untruthful, and the MSM is overwhelmingly biased and dishonest in one way or another.

If Ron Paul could explain his positions in a way that is simple yet detailed, more people of all ages would get the message. In 2 minutes of debate time, it's really hard to get through to people who have spent a lifetime hearing the exact opposite, including from the opponents standing next to him. Social Security and Medicare are huge issues to the baby boomer generation that just started depending on these returns, they need to know that their money will be returned and they won't starve or freeze to death. They are also not considering the unintended consequences of war because America mastered propaganda. Americans have been taught that we are special and righteous and the rest of the world hates us for that. How many people know what blowback is? I'm 32 and just heard the term about a year ago! The politicians have used people's kindness and fears against them for decades, it's not easy to undo. But the fact that Ron Paul resonates with so many younger people is remarkable. Finally, his work is paying off, even if we the impatient younger generation doesn't see it like that. This momentum is not going to reverse. Once you grasp freedom, it's extremely difficult to go back to lies and tyrannical policies. We should rejoice in the fact that we are experiencing the results of Ron Paul's and other's hard work and dedication at a much rapid pace than they ever saw. There are many, many people like Ron Paul in this country, who have been in the fight as long as he has, and they are THRILLED that it's finally catching on.

Be patient and learn how to articulate the choice of liberty in a way that resonates with all ages. Freedom never goes out of style, it can only get better and better! I like how Ron Paul said last night that we have to modernize liberty. We wouldn't go back to the exact way it was in 1776, we'd improve on it! But not at the expense of lives and taxation; only through education and true equality, where we do not favor one group over another and take from one group to redistribute to another.

When people are told SS is a Ponzi scheme, they are frightened. Because how many people get their money back from a known scheme? Virtually none. We must assure people that they are getting what is rightfully theirs but at the expense of unneeded government waste, like military bases in 130 countries and the Dept. of Ed., etc. Let's help Ron Paul get his message out in a more specific way, because worded differently, it will inspire people of all ages, all over the world.

 

[gte811i]

I disagree with the premise because you are assuming we are selling something to the older folks that they have not bought into before. There is little difference between what Paul is talking about and the general conservative mantra that has been pushed for years.

Limited government, personal responsibility, lower regulation, a strong national defense. This is the same thing every single GOP candidate for years has pushed. The problem as I see it, is that Paul enters into this as an academic rather than as a politician. The simple solution to start winning is to change the delivery of the message. The message and its content are sound, it is the packaging of the message where we are losing out.

I disagree with your disagreement . Talk is cheap. I would say many GOP candidates have given platitudes to various aspects of RP's platform over the years. If GOP candidates had actually pushed for what RP says, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in! He is Dr. No.

I really do appreciate the salesman POV, I think it is extremely important and very useful. However I think it's a little disingenuous to say it's (edited) all about changing the delivery. We aren't trying to sell people this version of a Sony laptop vs. a Toshiba laptop. We are trying to sell people on ditching their laptop and buying an iPad. The other candidates are laptops, RP is an iPad.

When it comes to brass tacks a lot of people say they believe in all those things, but their actions speak quite differently. They want to vote for someone who gives platitudes to those things but as long as the person they vote for doesn't rock the boat (the voters own personal boat) it really doesn't matter.

With RP, because of his track record you know what he will do, and that would bring quite a bit of change and that scares people.

As far as older gen vs. younger gen. It's really quite easy to understand why younger people don't vote. It's a lot harder to vote when you're 30s-40s raising x # of kids both parents working full-times jobs, shuttling kids back and forth, etc. The younger you are the less tied to the community- moving many times for jobs, etc. The older you are the more ability you have to actually control your time, the more likely you've been in one place for a long time, established ties w/ the community, it becomes more a social event.

So yes, we have to take the sales approach and find out what is important to each group and sell them on those aspects . . . but don't kid yourself there is a reason why the media shuts out RP, why he is more academic, etc. It's not just the delivery, some people genuinely just don't like his ideas, and that requires education. He is different.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

He does need to emphasize that his 1 trillion dollar budget cut the first year is the ONLY thing that will save Social Security.

+++++++1

Nobody is talking cuts, Paul mentions this frequently in debates & elsewhere, all he needs to do is add the above to it & try to attract the boomers

While I am not ready to chalk this one up in the loss column quite yet, as we are getting a pretty solid proportion of the delegates in each state -- as in physical delegates not "delegates". All last night did was give me more hope of a brokered convention where Ron would win.

True. Don't lose hope yet, people; there's a long way to go still, this is how media dictates elections........because people give up after first few states, don't play into their hands like this, let's keep fighting, we've got a totalitarian state coming soon so let's keep fighting & do EVERYTHING we can to prevent it.

Doesn't matter who or how old people are that vote in these 'straw polls'. It only matters who signs up to be a county delegate. Seems most everyone is too focused on the vote counts the media talks about, instead of focusing on how many COUNTY delegate seats were filled.

For example. Last election cycle, Huckabee did real well in getting 'votes' in the primaries and caucuses. BUT Ron Paul supporters DOMINATED huckabee for delegates. You can get millions of votes but no COUNTY delegates if your supporters leave for home before delegates are selected. Makes the point of the million votes you get almost meaningless except to the media, and the ill-informed.

These COUNTY delegates then go to their COUNTY GOP Convention, and thats where you then compete to become a STATE Delegate to your GOP State Convention. I look at it as though i was climbing a ladder. In Washington State, i became a State Delegate, but i had to become a COUNTY Delegate 1st. If i can do this, you can too. You have to committ yourself, and plan accordingly. This is why we as Ron Paul supporters in 2008 had nearly 40% of the State delegates, but it wasn't enough to take over the convention. We tried, but boy, was it close.

++++

 

[JK/SEA]

I think the problem in general is that Ron Paul doesn't elaborate on his thoughts and policies very much and the younger generation tends to use the internet to do more cross-checking and research, as well as attend college classes that weren't available 40 years ago. The older generation still relies on TV news, conversation, and print articles. None of which are inherently bad unless they are biased, corrupt, or untruthful, and the MSM is overwhelmingly biased and dishonest in one way or another.

If Ron Paul could explain his positions in a way that is simple yet detailed, more people of all ages would get the message. In 2 minutes of debate time, it's really hard to get through to people who have spent a lifetime hearing the exact opposite, including from the opponents standing next to him. Social Security and Medicare are huge issues to the baby boomer generation that just started depending on these returns, they need to know that their money will be returned and they won't starve or freeze to death. They are also not considering the unintended consequences of war because America mastered propaganda. Americans have been taught that we are special and righteous and the rest of the world hates us for that. How many people know what blowback is? I'm 32 and just heard the term about a year ago! The politicians have used people's kindness and fears against them for decades, it's not easy to undo. But the fact that Ron Paul resonates with so many younger people is remarkable. Finally, his work is paying off, even if we the impatient younger generation doesn't see it like that. This momentum is not going to reverse. Once you grasp freedom, it's extremely difficult to go back to lies and tyrannical policies. We should rejoice in the fact that we are experiencing the results of Ron Paul's and other's hard work and dedication at a much rapid pace than they ever saw. There are many, many people like Ron Paul in this country, who have been in the fight as long as he has, and they are THRILLED that it's finally catching on.

Be patient and learn how to articulate the choice of liberty in a way that resonates with all ages. Freedom never goes out of style, it can only get better and better! I like how Ron Paul said last night that we have to modernize liberty. We wouldn't go back to the exact way it was in 1776, we'd improve on it! But not at the expense of lives and taxation; only through education and true equality, where we do not favor one group over another and take from one group to redistribute to another.

When people are told SS is a Ponzi scheme, they are frightened. Because how many people get their money back from a known scheme? Virtually none. We must assure people that they are getting what is rightfully theirs but at the expense of unneeded government waste, like military bases in 130 countries and the Dept. of Ed., etc. Let's help Ron Paul get his message out in a more specific way, because worded differently, it will inspire people of all ages, all over the world.

Actually, it isn't about Ron articulating his message. Most people who support Ron 'get it' The real problem is getting young people to understand the DELEGATE issue. Too many young Paul supporters ARE NOT WILLING to committ to the delegate process. Old people understand, because i saw a shit load of 'old' people at my State convention in 2008. McCain got all 40 plus Washington State delegats to the NATIONAL Convention.

 

[donnay]

The GOP is dominated by the old people...

It seemed like 90% of the people at the Caucus I attended, which was quite large, were people all 40+. My wife (24) and I (27) brought our two kids and we were so in the minority that a lot of the old people kept coming up to us saying how proud they were that we were involved basically implying the young people don't care...

40 is old?

In my travels there were more 40, 50 and 60 year olds out campaigning and voting for Ron Paul. Let's just say Ron Paul brings the youth out in all of us!!

 

[Butchie]

Sadly, youre the one not grasping things. Ever hear the saying, cant teach an old dog new tricks? These older people are set in their ways and are a broken lost cause. Our only real hope is to start over fresh with the youth, and bring them up the RIGHT way and replace the older folks that dont get it, with a new generation of people that have a clue.

This election Im afraid is pretty much a done deal, in the lost cause category. Hopefully enough younger people will be able to take over, and in 15-20 years, we will get our country back. We just need to educate and keep spreading the message of Liberty.

That's a bunch of crap. I've got my 62yr old dad, my 65yr old aunt, 58, and 60 yr old aunt and uncle and several other's voting for Ron, thing is they've yet to actually HEAR RON SPEAK, and I'm trying to keep it that way, I explain Ron far better than Ron can, and no, I don't lie, I just understand my audience, trust me, people could come to his message if he knew how to say it.

 

[donnay]

It's all about the older Republicans. I don't understand why the campaign and way too many people on RPF can't graspe this basic reality.

Iraqi's had their Republican Guard, yet so does America. *SIGH* Democracy...ain't it great?

 

[ohgodno]

That's a bunch of crap. I've got my 62yr old dad, my 65yr old aunt, 58, and 60 yr old aunt and uncle and several other's voting for Ron, thing is they've yet to actually HEAR RON SPEAK, and I'm trying to keep it that way, I explain Ron far better than Ron can, and no, I don't lie, I just understand my audience, trust me, people could come to his message if he knew how to say it.

No body is implying that the message isn't popular to them. The medium is just as important as the message though. They, with the baby-boomers, and some Xer's, are the television generations. We all know how that goes.

... I will repeat: the medium is just as important as the message. We've got the message, we need a channel to reach the older individuals though. We need to break through the media frames and false narratives.

Nursing home speech drive? anyone, anyone?

 

[tbone717]

So yes, we have to take the sales approach and find out what is important to each group and sell them on those aspects . . . but don't kid yourself there is a reason why the media shuts out RP, why he is more academic, etc. It's not just the delivery, some people genuinely just don't like his ideas, and that requires education. He is different.

Agree. But there is a time issue to consider. We are quickly running out of time. Education requires a lot more time and effort than targeting specific issues that voters are interested in. In poll after poll the economy reigns as the most important issue. We can win on that issue as Paul is viewed as having a strong, credible plan to reshape the economy. It is when we get sidetracked on issues that are not resonating with the general public where we get bogged down. Right now we are carpet bombing with issues, some of which people love and some people have reservations about. We need to switch gears and have a more laser like focus if we want to win the nomination.

FP is a good example of this. We have heard many times, "I like Paul except for his FP". But when you look at polling data FP is way, way down the list of things that voters care about. So why do we need to spend so much time talking about FP? If it is an issue that is of little importance to people, if it is an issue that voters have reservations about because they need some further education, why would you spend time on that issue if it is not benefiting the campaign? If we stick to the issues that we win on, then we can expect to have better results. If we focus on the issues that we don't win on then we are setting ourselves up for failure.

 

[Adam West]

Sadly, youre the one not grasping things. Ever hear the saying, cant teach an old dog new tricks? These older people are set in their ways and are a broken lost cause. Our only real hope is to start over fresh with the youth, and bring them up the RIGHT way and replace the older folks that dont get it, with a new generation of people that have a clue.

This election Im afraid is pretty much a done deal, in the lost cause category. Hopefully enough younger people will be able to take over, and in 15-20 years, we will get our country back. We just need to educate and keep spreading the message of Liberty.

Are you serious? I am 53 and have met many 20 year-olds that are ignorant, stupid and lazy. Just because some old establishment "farts" in tne Republican heirarchy can't pull their finger out of their ass, is no reason to make inane generalizations.

For your information, I work 7 days a week, and damn fricking hard. I would venture that there are plenty of "old dogs" on this forum who do like-wise and take offence to your stupid remarks.

 

[Butchie]

No body is implying that the message isn't popular to them. The medium is just as important as the message though. They, with the baby-boomers, and some Xer's, are the television generations. We all know how that goes.

... I will repeat: the medium is just as important as the message. We've got the message, we need a channel to reach the older individuals though. We need to break through the media frames and false narratives.

Nursing home speech drive? anyone, anyone?

Well, I still think people are giving the media WAY to much credit, I mean honestly, most voters I talk to don't even watch the news, problem is I get them interested in Ron, they sit down and watch the debate, and what do they see? He stutters, he runs his sentences together, he get's all flustered, he says the right thing - but he says it the wrong way or in just a flat out confusing way that no one who isn't a die hard fan can understand. I'm not trying to insult the guy but like it or not part of being a leader IS public speaking and you have to be able to communicate yourself effectively.

Just look at Newt, is he honest, does he have any real ideas, no, but he can speak well, and with virtually no money and the press calling his campaign dead in the water, twice now he has risen all because of his debate performances.

 

[Cinderella]

I'd rather have an old,stuttering, and honest man for president over some smooth talking criminal.

 

[moostraks]

Are you serious? I am 53 and have met many 20 year-olds that are ignorant, stupid and lazy. Just because some old establishment "farts" in tne Republican heirarchy can't pull their finger out of their ass, is no reason to make inane generalizations.

For your information, I work 7 days a week, and damn fricking hard. I would venture that there are plenty of "old dogs" on this forum who do like-wise and take offence to your stupid remarks.

Thanks that made me feel better...it needed said. I find it so amusing someone (OP) who is 27 calls 40+ old. I can only fathom how the big 3-0 will hit them. Since I just had baby number 8 and am sick of the fact that people think that gray hair makes one elderly...piss off those of you who are so wrapped up in beating down folks based on perceived misconceptions just because of one's age/physical appearance. I am over 40 and still fertile without aid of medical intervention, that ain't old.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Agree. But there is a time issue to consider. We are quickly running out of time. Education requires a lot more time and effort than targeting specific issues that voters are interested in.

I keep telling everyone, don't panick & be hastened by media hype about the early states......otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling-prophecy - they hype up the early states & then people give up trying after that......don't play their game of hype, this one is going to go down to the wire & it's the delegates that'll count.

If people don't understand the philosophy behind his issues then he won't be able to get much done & the economy is going to get worse no matter what so if they don't understand things then they're going to blame him & his "kooky libertarian ideas", pretty much like Reagan to an extent, nowadays, every time I talk to someone about economics, a lot of people reply "oh, tax cuts don't work, supply-side economics doesn't work" etc etc & with the coming depression, if people don't understand philosophy then they'll forever blame libertarianism for the economic disaster! This is why EDUCATION is just as important as votes.

In poll after poll the economy reigns as the most important issue. We can win on that issue as Paul is viewed as having a strong, credible plan to reshape the economy.
FP is a good example of this. We have heard many times, "I like Paul except for his FP". But when you look at polling data FP is way, way down the list of things that voters care about.

The economy is intimately connected with war-expenditure & welfarism, you'll HAVE TO cut one or the other, otherwise you can't address the economic problems at all & the debt can't be reigned in, this is exactly why vast majority of politicians aren't willing to take a stand on these issues, they just focus on getting elected & nothing ever gets done because people aren't educated & don't understand simple facts.
So let's say even if he were to avoid FP to convince the old-voters (not considering the fact that he's ALREADY been labelled an "isolationist" on FP & "kooky goldbug" on EP), what's he gonna do when he gets elected? Cut SS, medicare NO, people will go crazy.....how about cutting overseas - NO, people will go crazy so he'll "lose" despite winning in such a scenario because people aren't educated on the issues to be able to back him on what he'd want to do.
That's why, education is just as important as votes (& delegates of course )

Anyways, here's a good suggestion, may be he ought to emphasize a LOT more on this to get it thru the thick GOP skulls of some of the older voters.

He does need to emphasize that his 1 trillion dollar budget cut the first year is the ONLY thing that will save Social Security.

 

[gte811i]

Agree. But there is a time issue to consider. We are quickly running out of time. Education requires a lot more time and effort than targeting specific issues that voters are interested in. In poll after poll the economy reigns as the most important issue. We can win on that issue as Paul is viewed as having a strong, credible plan to reshape the economy. It is when we get sidetracked on issues that are not resonating with the general public where we get bogged down. Right now we are carpet bombing with issues, some of which people love and some people have reservations about. We need to switch gears and have a more laser like focus if we want to win the nomination.

FP is a good example of this. We have heard many times, "I like Paul except for his FP". But when you look at polling data FP is way, way down the list of things that voters care about. So why do we need to spend so much time talking about FP? If it is an issue that is of little importance to people, if it is an issue that voters have reservations about because they need some further education, why would you spend time on that issue if it is not benefiting the campaign? If we stick to the issues that we win on, then we can expect to have better results. If we focus on the issues that we don't win on then we are setting ourselves up for failure.

To a large extent I agree . But I'm also looking at this in a much larger way. The path we are on has been in the making for the last 30 years and financially for about 100 years. This is an extremely large ship that we are trying to turn around.

Helping people understand RP's philosophy and buying into that philosophy is 100x more important than getting RP elected. Getting those people who buyin into the party structure, getting those people in positions of power, getting those people elected as congressmen is all more important than just one man.

Let's just imagine that RP is president, what can he do. He can do a lot such as bring troops home and veto bills. But if we do not have a Congress and/or a populace who buys into that philosophy he will be a dead duck. He would get crucified in the media and in some ways might actually do more harm than good. A bi/partisan congress dead-set against a libertarian minded president. The media would scream and throw massive fits about RP. When things don't turn out (b/c without a Congress along with him, it could get ugly) he and his philosophy would be blamed.

I don't follow RP b/c of who he is, but b/c of what he believes (and demonstrates consistently that belief). If it was Romney vs. Paul and Romney had a libertarianesk track record that Paul has, I'd vote for Romney. Paul isn't the most articulate, or smooth talking . . . but he is the most genuine, honest and consistent.

The Tea Party movement came about b/c of Paul and it did a lot of good in '10. The republican revolution in '96 came about b/c of Perot and did some good for several years.

And I understand FP is an issue for many voters and that the economy is more important. But if people do not understand that they are entwined then you can not solve the economic issue.

 

[gte811i]

I keep telling everyone, don't panick & be hastened by media hype about the early states......otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling-prophecy - they hype up the early states & then people give up trying after that......don't play their game of hype, this one is going to go down to the wire & it's the delegates that'll count.
ters.

Same wavelength . . .scary

 

[Liberty74]

Grasping it and being able to change the course of it are not the same. There is not a magical wand that can be waved which will make the "old people" turn over 40 years of indoctrination and come to our side. So while "young people won't vote" is true, "old people love GOP big government" is just as true.

I think you're missing the point. You don't have to win everyone over 44. You simply have to be competitive in the group. Getting 10-15% isn't going to cut it especially in the closed primaries. Ron needs to get that number to 20-25% and let the youth vote push us to the top spot or at least a solid second. It's called WINNING.

 

[mczerone]

The GOP is dominated by the old people...

It seemed like 90% of the people at the Caucus I attended, which was quite large, were people all 40+. My wife (24) and I (27) brought our two kids and we were so in the minority that a lot of the old people kept coming up to us saying how proud they were that we were involved basically implying the young people don't care...

To which you should've replied: "I'm only involved to promote the message of freedom as told by Dr. Paul. The rest of the GOP doesn't interest me, and is nearly as bad for America as Obama has been. If you want to see more vitality in the GOP and keep it a proud, competitive party, you need to seriously look at why Romney loses to Paul amongst the young and the independents. The GOP can be a great party again, but if they elect anyone but Paul they are likely to lose not only this election but also a great shot in the arm in terms of enthusiasm and support moving forward."

They should change their mascot from an elephant to an ostrich.