One, Big Beautiful Bill (The Mega-Bill)

[CaptUSA]

But, you’re still going to “vote”, in the next election, for “lesser of evil”, right? You know, to keep the corporate system intact, alive and well.

I may or may not, but the system will be intact, regardless. You don't win any brownie points. You didn't do anything to defeat that system either except to bitch and moan about it and then pat yourself on the back.

 

[PAF]

I may or may not, but the system will be intact, regardless. You don't win any brownie points. You didn't do anything to defeat that system either except to bitch and moan about it and then pat yourself on the back.

With On the Récords available, the ones who vote have no right to complain. Only folks like me do.

It’s however you can sleep peacefully at night, even if you’re complicit.

 

[Occam's Banana]

I've never claimed anyone is obliged to say anything about anything. I was simply pointing out that absurd nature of whining about good things being taken out or watered down when they never praised those things to begin with.

There are/were plenty of individual items worthy of praise in the House passed version of the bill, even for Massie and Musk. Now, whether you think the trade offs are worth it when it's combined with bad things in the bill is a separate argument.

And so we come full circle:

Or what amounts to the same thing, from the other direction:

Before it passed the House, the Massie and Musk crowd cited many negatives of the bill. Now, they are mocking the fact that even the relatively few positives are being stripped out or watered down.
​

But it's disingenuous to say there were few virtues in it.

I said there were relatively few, compared to what its critics regarded as weightier negatives.

 

[Voluntarist]

PROVISION: Waiver For Non-Contiguous States
Guess who's vote this one is targeted at getting
This is fine tuning on the revision to cuts in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).

The original provision about waiving the SNAP payment rules for non-contiguous states didn't get past the Senate parliamentarian because it violated reconciliation rules. Instead, the version in the passed Senate bill exempted states that exceeded an over-payment error rate of 10%
- Alaska (22.50%)
- District of Columbia (13.62%)
- Florida (13.05%)
- Georgia (13.59%)
- Illinois (10.64%)
- Maryland (8.85%)
- Massachusetts (13.03%)
- New Jersey (12.11%)
- New Mexico (13.07%)
- New York (12.65%)
- Oregon (12.66%)
- Rhode Island (10.61%)

Out of 12 states (and DC) being exempted, only 3 voted for trump in the last election, while 9 voted against him.
Out of the 39 states not being exempted, 29 voted for Trump in the last election, while only 10 voted against him.
So, yet more irony: this revised provision is actually financially penalizing the MAGA crowd and rewarding the anti-MAGA crowd

 

[Madison320]

But, you’re still going to “vote”, in the next election, for “lesser of evil”, right? You know, to keep the corporate system intact, alive and well.

As opposed to what? Dream of anarcho paradise? How does that do anything?

 

[69360]

Consensus among the people. Right on

Which is exactly why things are the way that they are.

Good grief.

It's too big a problem to fix. We all know it. Either it continues or we crash , burn and start over. It is what it is.

 

[Madison320]

I may or may not, but the system will be intact, regardless. You don't win any brownie points. You didn't do anything to defeat that system either except to bitch and moan about it and then pat yourself on the back.

100% agree. This is where I have a problem with the anarchists. As long as we're both working to reduce government then I'm on their side. But anarchists are working against liberty when they sabotage the effort to reduce government.

 

[Madison320]

It's too big a problem to fix. We all know it. Either it continues or we crash , burn and start over. It is what it is.

It's going to crash and burn under the weight of the debt. The debt you said was just a made up number.

 

[69360]

It's going to crash and burn under the weight of the debt. The debt you said was just a made up number.

It is made up. It doesn't matter anymore how many zeros there are. Either poeple can afford to survive or not. Maybe they can keep propping it up forever, maybe not. Any chance to fix it has long passed.

 

[CaptUSA]

100% agree. This is where I have a problem with the anarchists. As long as we're both working to reduce government then I'm on their side. But anarchists are working against liberty when they sabotage the effort to reduce government.

I don't even know that I'd consider it sabotage - they're no more effective (and considerably less so) than the rest of us. It's the smug, self-admiring, self-important, self-congratulatory arrogance without a single accomplishment that I find particularly annoying.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It is made up. It doesn't matter anymore how many zeros there are. Either poeple can afford to survive or not. Maybe they can keep propping it up forever, maybe not. Any chance to fix it has long passed.

He's right.

$40 trillion in debt is never being paid back, cannot be paid back unless you inflate, collapse and default or go to war with your creditors.

 

[nikcers]

Oh cool. Autopen FTW!!

Thomas Jefferson had an "autopen" too apparently.

When he asked his "cabinet" if he should go to congress for a declaration of war his cabinet told him that he didn't need to declare war if we're already at war.

I guess you could have an office of the president without a cabinet but they wouldnt be able to get any work done.

No man does everything on their own.

 

[nikcers]

He's right.

$40 trillion in debt is never being paid back, cannot be paid back unless you inflate, collapse and default or go to war with your creditors.

Of course its paid back with interest.

Our private industry is where the government borrows the money.

Our economy is massive and its even suppressed by sanctions and regulations.

If our country ever powered up without our trade barriers and trade wars it would be even bigger.

The problem is there are diminishing returns to such a thing. Thats because of the law of supply and demand.

The USA private industry has money in 100s of countrys.

51% of the world's economy is dollar based. Even that number is suppressed because of trade wars.

 

[acptulsa]

It's the smug, self-admiring, self-important, self-congratulatory arrogance without a single accomplishment that I find particularly annoying.

Some find it better than being smug, self-admiring, self-important and self-congratulatory about aiding and abetting evil just because they perceive it as "lesser".

You're just annoyed because we're right, but we're battling uphill all the time and it's too much like work.

How should we tickle your consciences? Tell you Trump's doing a heckofa job breaking all his promises, but Harris could possibly have done very slightly worse?

Some people think doing nothing is better than doing evil. Others are caught up in the notion that they can ensure less evil will be done this four years than the last four years. Who's dreaming? At least we aren't aiding and abetting evil. And if more people were to join us, critical mass could be achieved.

Do you agree with familydog that doing evil shit is better than doing nothing? Or does it do your heart a little bit of good to hear, "the federal government shut down"?

 

[familydog]

I cited one example, which disproves your statement.

Well, no. You didn't cite an example. You made a statement. Citing your works would be linking to where he made this praise. I just searched his X timeline and couldn't find it. Perhaps you can point me in right direction.

 

[acptulsa]

Of course its paid back with interest.

Won't be much longer.

 

[familydog]

And so we come full circle:

​

I said there were relatively few, compared to what its critics regarded as weightier negatives.

Relatively compared to what? Libertarian utopian dream bill?

 

[Occam's Banana]

Relatively compared to what? Libertarian utopian dream bill?

English is hard.

 

[familydog]

It is made up. It doesn't matter anymore how many zeros there are. Either poeple can afford to survive or not. Maybe they can keep propping it up forever, maybe not. Any chance to fix it has long passed.

Yes, exactly. This is never getting fixed. Any politician who campaigns otherwise is just trying to siphon donations. People have been predicating that the debt will cause a collapse for decades and decades. They fit right in with the "Iran is weeks away from getting a nuclear weapon" crowd.

 

[familydog]

English is hard.

So is debating in good faith, as people here have proven.