One, Big Beautiful Bill (The Mega-Bill)

[Invisible Man]

China devalues their currency and then manipulates the entire global economy and steals our intellectual property.

So when our government hamstrings us by using its monopoly of violence to stop us from copying other people's ideas in the name of "intellectual property," it's China's fault. Instead of demanding that our government leave us alone and let us exercise our right to copy other people's ideas, they should meddle in the affairs of China and try to coerce their government into imposing the same burden on their people just to make it fair, all by way of imposing even more burdens on Americans.

 

[acptulsa]

...all by way of imposing even more burdens on Americans

Just like its insistence that the Fed must further debase "our" currency.

 

[nikcers]

Stupid bot, no one's letting you change the subject. So, your argument that we must become communist China to defeat communism is too irrelevant to this thread to properly debunk here.

We should become less globalist because other countries are eating our lunch.

Americans have 12 trillion in house debt and 1.7 trillion in college debt and even other household debts.

All of that money they pay on those debts is getting sucked out to other economies.

It's growing their populations and building houses in their countries.

My grandfathers generation had 8 kids, my mother's generation had 4 kids, my generation has less than 2.

We are being depopulated by globalism that began in the 70s.

 

[nikcers]

So when our government hamstrings us by using its monopoly of violence to stop us from copying other people's ideas in the name of "intellectual property," it's China's fault. Instead of demanding that our government leave us alone and let us exercise our right to copy other people's ideas, they should meddle in the affairs of China and try to coerce their government into imposing the same burden on their people just to make it fair, all by way of imposing even more burdens on Americans.

If we spend trillions of dollars developing the IPhone and China copies it and steals 90% of the wealth created by us developing the technology thats not good for us.

 

[Invisible Man]

If we spend trillions of dollars developing the IPhone and China copies it and steals 90% of the wealth created by us developing the technology thats not good for us.

I'm not sure who you mean by "we," because I wasn't involved in developing the iPhone. But I were permitted to copy it and sell my copies the way China does, then I would benefit.

You're doing exactly what I said. Instead of demanding that our own government repeal its intellectual property laws that impose punishments on me if I make and sell copies of iPhones, you demand that they meddle in China and try to manipulate them into imposing the same punishments on their people just to make it fair. And again, this meddling is brought about by imposing more burdens on me.

 

[acptulsa]

My grandfathers generation had 8 kids, my mother's generation had 4 kids, my generation has less than 2.

So, bot, how does your sibling feel about having 0.3 brothers?

 

[nikcers]

I'm not sure who you mean by "we," because I wasn't involved in developing the iPhone. But I were permitted to copy it and sell my copies the way China does, then I would benefit.

You're doing exactly what I said. Instead of demanding that our own government repeal its intellectual property laws that impose punishments on me if I make and sell copies of iPhones, you demand that they meddle in China and try to manipulate them into imposing the same punishments on their people just to make it fair. And again, this meddling is brought about by imposing more burdens on me.

We as in my family. We created the microchip and lithium batteries.

Computers were the size of a house and batteries were the size of bricks before we dumped tax payer dollars on NASA and the Vietnam war.

NASA wanted a computer that could fit inside a rocket and the military wanted batteries and radio devices that would feed war intelligence from the battlefield to planes flying above ground that they could fly back to data centers that would process that intelligence.

 

[Invisible Man]

We as in my family. We created the microchip and lithium batteries.

Computers were the size of a house and batteries were the size of bricks before we dumped tax payer dollars on NASA and the Vietnam war.

NASA wanted a computer that could fit inside a rocket and the military wanted batteries and radio devices that would feed war intelligence from the battlefield to planes flying above ground that they could fly back to data centers that would process that intelligence.

OK, well yes, it sounds like your family has benefited from the government at the expense of the rest of America. But that is the way government interference in the economy always is. There are benefits that are highly visible to the small number of people they're concentrated on, paid for by costs that are invisible because they are so diffused across the whole rest of the population. The total costs invariably exceed the total benefits. But the people bearing those costs don't have enough of a perceived incentive to lobby the government to reduce them to outweigh the very high perceived incentive that the beneficiaries of the government interference have to lobby the government to do it.

"We," meaning you, benefit. Whereas "we," meaning everyone else, suffer.

 

[nikcers]

OK, well yes, it sounds like your family has benefited from the government at the expense of the rest of America. But that is the way government interference in the economy always is. There are benefits that are highly visible to the small number of people they're concentrated on, paid for by costs that are invisible because they are so diffused across the whole rest of the population. The total costs invariably exceed the total benefits. But the people bearing those costs don't have enough of a perceived incentive to lobby the government to reduce them to outweigh the very high perceived incentive that the beneficiaries of the government interference have to lobby the government to do it.

"We," meaning you, benefit. Whereas "we," meaning everyone else, suffer.

Microchips and lithium batteries and the internet and other DARPA projects have benefitted billions.

All I am saying is that China shouldn't be entitled to 90% of the profits from it.

That would be like losing a war.

 

[Invisible Man]

Microchips and lithium batteries and the internet and other DARPA projects have benefitted billions.

All I am saying is that China shouldn't be entitled to 90% of the profits from it.

That would be like losing a war.

Yes. And they would have benefited billions without the government's involvement in their creation too. But when we zero in on that factor of government interference in the market, its overall costs have exceeded its overall benefits.

Granted, this doesn't apply to you and your family. But it applies overall.

And now, you want the rest of us to bear even more costs so that you and your family can have even more benefits. Your MO is making more and more sense.

 

[acptulsa]

Computers were the size of a house and batteries were the size of bricks before we dumped tax payer dollars on NASA and the Vietnam war.

So, you think I should not only give Apple all that tech, but that I should send my son to war with China to ensure that Apple's multinational stockholders are the only people who benefit from it?

And if I don't own Apple stock? It's my fault I lost my money and my son without even getting dividends for it? I should have had enough sense to invest in my team?

Your idea of enlightened self interest is unenlightened and self-defeating. You can see that, right?

 

[nikcers]

Yes. And they would have benefited billions without the government's involvement in their creation too. But when we zero in on that factor of government involvement, its overall costs have exceeded its overall benefits.

Granted, this doesn't apply to you and your family. But it applies overall.

No actually without government involvement the American rocket program would have never happened.

The rocket program didnt happen without NASA.

NASA didn't happen without World War 2.

World War 2 didnt happen without World War 1.

The Vietnam war didnt happen without World War 2.

The Soviets didn't have computers.

Without the cold war and winning the cold war there's no computers.

My family fought in those wars.

We lose the war if we let China take all the spoils of war because we keep our taxes too high.

 

[nikcers]

So, you think I should not only give Apple all that tech, but that I should send my son to war with China to ensure that Apple's multinational stockholders are the only people who benefit from it?

And if I don't own Apple stock? It's my fault I lost my money and my son without even getting dividends for it? I should have had enough sense to invest in my team?

Your idea of enlightened self interest is unenlightened and self-defeating. You can see that, right?

You should just surrender to China of course thats easier than fighting a trade war.

Your next 10 generations, 100 years can be in debt being slaves to China because thats easier than cutting taxes and being competitive.

 

[acptulsa]

We lose the war if we let China take all the spoils of war

What happened to making the world safe for free people, bot?

 

[nikcers]

What happened to making the world safe for free people, bot?

Woodrow Wilson is dead.

 

[acptulsa]

Your next 10 generations, 100 years can be in debt being slaves to China because thats easier than cutting taxes and being competitive.

Cutting taxes, bot? Now we're back to you explaining why you want us to pay higher inflation tax, bot. You remember. The tax you want us to pay that destroys small business and further impoverishes the poor.

You can't distract us from the questions you're too embarrassed to answer by circling back to the subject. Answer the question, or go tell your programmer you're a useless fuckup and need code that makes you work right.

Woodrow Wilson is dead.

At least he was once a living being. That's more than you'll ever be able to say.

 

[nikcers]

Cutting taxes, bot? Now we're back to you explaining why you want us to pay higher inflation tax, bot. You remember. The tax you want us to pay that destroys small business and further impoverishes the poor.

You can't distract us from the questions you're too embarrassed to answer by circling back to the subject. Answer the question, or go tell your programmer you're a useless fuckup and need code that makes you work right.

If we don't cut taxes our economy won't grow it will shrink.

This means we won't win the 21st century.

You would give it away to Asia for pennies.

 

[acptulsa]

If we don't cut taxes our economy won't grow it will shrink.

This means we won't win the 21st century.

You would give it away to Asia for pennies.

Printing money=raising taxes. Because Trump is following your advice we won't win the 21st century. You want us to give it to Chase, Deutsche Bank, BoA, and other international Rothschilds institutions for pennies, probably because they programmed you to.

 

[nikcers]

Printing money=raising taxes. Because Trump is following your advice we won't win the 21st century. You want us to give it to Chase and BoA for pennies, probably because they programmed you to.

We can't pay our taxes if we dont have an economy.

I like your style.

There's no taxes if I don't work.

Let's just export our entire economy to other countries and learn Chinese and maybe if we are really nice about it they won't ethnically cleanse us like they do the Tibetans and Uyghurs

 

[Invisible Man]

No actually without government involvement the American rocket program would have never happened.

The rocket program didnt happen without NASA.

Yes, I understand how you are misled to believe that. It goes back to the visible concentrated benefits versus the invisible diffuse costs I mentioned previously.

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