Ok Christian Church, what gave us the right to go to war?

[hope7134]

I am amazed that all the teachings of Jesus, like blessed are the peacemakers, love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, do good to those that would despitefully use you, if a man sues you for your coat give him your cloak also, etc…etc…etc…. is so lost in the Christian church.

I’m confused because this war thing and revenge thing, that’s not anything like the teachings of Christ.

I would love some Christian to give me the scriptures where Christ (who is supposed to be the head of the church) ever led us to war! Then I ask, if Christ did not lead us, then who would lead us to such a terrible destruction? And is there any wonder, our country is being cursed?

Come on church, the bible says we can’t serve two masters! What master are we serving?

 

[familydog]

I would love some Christian to give me the scriptures where Christ (who is supposed to be the head of the church) ever led us to war!

You seem to be an intelligent Christian. You ought to remember John 2:14-16 where Jesus used violence in order to exact revenge. As Christians, we are to model our lives on that of Jesus. One can make a case for a war of retaliation by simply using this one passage.

 

[slothman]

If you use that line as a reason then wouldn't his lines counteract it.

To quote Ned Flanders(Simpsons) "I did all the stuff; even the stuff that contradicted that other stuff."
Or, in other words, the Bible is a difficult book to understand.

 

[Captain America]

No one should see past facts that show shady actions by our government on 9-11 as the red flag op or the way 7 came down. I am someone who looks at facts and these facts must be looked at and they have not at this point. Why doesnt the government look at these findings and declassify the gas station video of the pentagon, and all other things.

It was not Iraq who attacked the US PERIOD

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well... Jesus said "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword". So , He didn't advocate wars. He did throw the moneychangers out of the temple...so that's some violence. Ron Paul..and other libertarian conservatives..or paleoconservatives...consider the Just War Theory. Ron Paul talks about it in his book. tones

 

[hope7134]

tonesforjonesbones;

John 2:14-16
14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

learn the history of this story and then see if this is has anything to do with war.

_____________________

I am not talking about Ron Paul. He is for non-intervention and attacking our enemies, it has been more than approved Iraq did not attack us. That's why he's so against war.

___________________________________

My question is to the christians. Please show me through the scriptures, where Jesus, who is the head of the church, would have led us to war! I am not following any other leader. I don't care what pastors, teachers, etc....have said, what gave us the right, according to Christ, who we say we follow, to go to war?

As christians we are supposed to live above reproach by living righteously according to the scriptures. I am asking, because I don't know of any biblical foundation. As followers of Christ, we must ask of ourselves these questions and repent for our unrighteousness, if we have erred.

Jesus said "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword".

 

[Truth Warrior]

Roman Empire roots and origins and other miscellaneous, assorted BARBARIANS throughout human history?

 

[IRO-bot]

How about during the holy crusades when the preachers would tell the people it was not a sin to kill infidels and that it was gods will.

 

[hope7134]

I received a message asking me this question, so now I'm asking this question. You see I understand what the church world has said and done and that they have said and done this throughout time, but where did Jesus, who is the church's ultimate authority, give us permission for war? I don't care how high a religious leader is in the church, none hold a higher position than Christ. He is the ultimate authority and the only true pattern for all christians.

The church is in error.

 

[IRO-bot]

Hear hear Hope. To my limited knowledge of all things Bible, I know not of a place that Jesus says we should war. One the flip side, The Old Testament, has many people where violence and war is to be waged. Who do you trust Jesus or God?!?

 

[RJB]

My question is to the christians.

You are preaching to the chior when you address the Christians here with that question. Go to Hannity's forum and ask that question.

 

[IRO-bot]

You are preaching to the chior when you address the Christians here with that question. Go to Hannity's forum and ask that question.

That equals insta-ban.

 

[RJB]

That equals insta-ban.

Been there, done that

 

[hope7134]

IRO-bot,

everyone says God is a war God, that's not scriptural either.
God simply removes his hand and evil will destroy its' self. Pharoah wasn't defeated because the Israelites waged war, walls of Jericho did not fall because of war, Jehosphat did not battle in the valley.

God defends the meek. We are not lead to war. And now christ is made the head of the church, he's not leading us to war either.

as Jesus said: He that lives by the sword dies by the sword, why then do we have this church leader proclaim for us to live by the sword. If he truly wants peace, why does he propagate war?
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=hagee&hl=en&emb=0#

tonesforjonesbones: Jesus did throw out the money changers from the church (temple), its time to do it again.

RBJ, it would be great if I could get to Hannity, you know what I think of him. But, maybe by asking this question on this site, it will reach Christians who are not awake. I wish it could reach all christians. (By the way, nice to talk to you again.)

But, truth, I still want some christian somewhere to show me, by what biblical authority did we go to war! Thanks everyone.

 

[Dr.3D]

Actually, it seems you should be asking this question on the McCain forums. Those on this forum would seem not to be for intervention or starting wars.

 

[weslinder]

Many Christians (Quakers, some Pentecostals) don't believe that war is ever justified.

The idea of a Just War comes originally from St. Augustine, and was expanded by St. Thomas Aquinas. They are biblically-based philosophies, and not perfect, but should be considered.

Here's something about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A644672

A Just War

In respect to the rest of [Aquinas'] work, these particular rules were not very important. However, even today the Church clings to them as a benchmark for justice. The rules themselves are in bold, the interpretations are in normal text, and the examples are in italics.

There were originally three by Aquinas;

The war must be started and controlled by the authority of state or ruler.

This means that for a war to be just, only the head of the nation can start it. It rules out civil war and rebellion.

This was not the case in the French Revolution because it was started by the people.

There must be a just cause.

This means that anyone and everyone being fought against must truly deserve it. A just cause would not include greed, revenge or pride, but it would include protection, self-defence and prevention of a worse evil.

This was not the case when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939 because the invasion was to gain land.

The war must be for good, or against evil. Law and order must always be restored.

This means that no one should ever find themselves on the side of evil for any reason, whatever the politics involved. It also means that there is a duty to return to a life of normality after the war is over.

This was not the case in the Boer war when the British immigrants revolted against the Afrikaans, since it was a thinly disguised attempt to make South Africa part of the British Empire.

Two more rules were later added by the Catholic Church, when new developments meant that some countries were much stronger than others. This meant that they would be more likely to win any war they started, and so they could start wars for more trivial purposes.

The war must be a last resort.

This means that every other option must be tried first.

This was not the case in World War I since the countries involved were prepared for war at the earliest opportunity, and trapped each other into it.

The war must be fought proportionally.

This means do not use more force than necessary or kill more civilians than necessary.

This was not the case in the bombing of Nagasaki or Hiroshima, since there were thousands of civilians killed.

Other Christians have come up with different versions of this, such as Jonathan Mayhew arguing that since the King interfered with the free will of Man, that it was a Christian obligation to overthrow him.

 

[familydog]

tonesforjonesbones;

John 2:14-16
14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

learn the history of this story and then see if this is has anything to do with war.

My question is to the christians. Please show me through the scriptures, where Jesus, who is the head of the church, would have led us to war! I am not following any other leader. I don't care what pastors, teachers, etc....have said, what gave us the right, according to Christ, who we say we follow, to go to war?

As christians we are supposed to live above reproach by living righteously according to the scriptures. I am asking, because I don't know of any biblical foundation. As followers of Christ, we must ask of ourselves these questions and repent for our unrighteousness, if we have erred.

Jesus said "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword".

You are talking about war in general. The passage of John shows that Jesus did resort to violence when he was wronged. This sounds like "just war." Believing in "just war" does not mean one "lives by the sword." A war for retaliation is a war that the majority of Christians can support. Iraq is not that kind of war. Nation-building in Afganistan is not that kind of war. However, you are just making general references to war.

Are you familiar with the book of Revelation? Jesus talks about waging a war against evil and leading an army.

 

[Truth Warrior]

 

[Theocrat]

I Shall Remain Silent

I am amazed that all the teachings of Jesus, like blessed are the peacemakers, love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, do good to those that would despitefully use you, if a man sues you for your coat give him your cloak also, etc…etc…etc…. is so lost in the Christian church.

I’m confused because this war thing and revenge thing, that’s not anything like the teachings of Christ.

I would love some Christian to give me the scriptures where Christ (who is supposed to be the head of the church) ever led us to war! Then I ask, if Christ did not lead us, then who would lead us to such a terrible destruction? And is there any wonder, our country is being cursed?

Come on church, the bible says we can’t serve two masters! What master are we serving?

You don't even want to know my answer.

 

[hope7134]

Theocrat, I do want your answer. I'm asking this question, because as Christians, for the sake of the entire church world and our country. Christians (especially evangelicals) are being eaten alive, because of their support of the war. But, are they wrong or are they right. I personally believe, by what I have studied and learned is they are wrong. I can't find anywhere in the bible, that says we should ever, for any reason go to war.

Now, if what I just said is right, then the entire church world needs to repent and pledge to never go down this road again. It's my prayer that they will do just that!

The thing is this, the news media was screaming about the muslims being warmongering, because the muslim leadership wouldn't condemn the terrorists and begin ardently standing up that Islam is a religion based on love.

Problem be, Christianity is supposed to be a religion based on love, yet the media wasn't yelling that the church should stand up and proclaim forgiveness. No, just he opposite was true. The media and the religious leaders were yelling war, war, war!

Why did the church go down this path, that's still my question. Were we justified or were we duped and now are taking the fall?


Truth Warrior: Yeah!!!!!That's what I'm talking about!