Oil and Gas Industries Don’t Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance

[oyarde]

When we had the Obama economy gasoline at 4.11 about a quarter of that price was taxes .

 

[oyarde]

Oyarde is ready and prepared for 1.00 gas , 1900 gold and a 15K Dow .

 

[Theocrat]

Protectionist, Much?

By shutting down American businesses, putting Americans out of work and making America more dependent on hostile foreign countries for our needs.

Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?

The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.

Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.

 

[Theocrat]

Protectionist, Much?

The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.

First of all, I asked where in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.

Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.

Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your assumption is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.

 

[Theocrat]

The "Invisible Hand" Contains Stars & Stripes?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.

Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.

I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.

 

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, I asked where in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.

It's not my job to run and fetch for you but I'll indulge you.

A1 S8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;...

...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations

Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.

Bunk, that's like saying that the moment the army responds to an invasion you no longer have peace.
The foreign government intervention puts an end to the free market and only domestic defense against that government intervention can restore it.
You are the one turning things on their head and claiming that foreign government intervention is the free market.

Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your assumption is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.

Defending against foreign trade warfare is not controlling the economy, I am not assuming anything, I am discussing a case of foreign government intervention and calling for our government to neutralize it.

You can keep pretending that foreign government intervention is the free market and that eliminating it so that the economy is free of government intervention is "controlling the economy" but it won't make it true.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.

An international pandemic, which could very possibly turn out to be man-made falls under:

provide for the common defense

Or do you prefer Red Bill DiBlasio's plan to just nationalize everything?

Course, what gives the FedGov the right is not in the preamble, but right here:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Again with the bailouts.

Did you or anyone else think it was about something else???

 

[Swordsmyth]

U.S. oil companies battered by the crude price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia are encouraging the Trump administration to waive a law that mandates only American vessels can be used to transport goods among U.S. ports. A temporary waiver of that law, known as the Jones Act, “can allow American producers to move domestic products with greater ease within the U.S.,” the American Exploration and Production Council said in a letter sent to congressional leaders Thursday and seen by Bloomberg. The group represents independent oil companies that have announced plans to scale back operations as Russia and Saudi Arabia flood the world with crude, including Parsley Energy Inc., Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Pioneer Natural Resources Co.
The move comes as the Trump administration has weighed ideas to buttress domestic oil producers amid the Russia-Saudi feud, including lowering royalty rates for crude extracted from federal lands. Continental Resources Inc. Chairman Harold Hamm told Bloomberg TV on Wednesday that he wants the Commerce Department to investigate whether Saudi Arabia is violating antidumping laws by flooding the world with cheap crude. Not everyone is on board.
“We want to be clear: Our industry is not seeking a bailout from the federal government,” AXPC Chief Executive Officer Anne Bradbury told House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other congressional leaders in the letter. “This goes against the business-minded and entrepreneurial spirits of our members, who believe in the free market.”
The group did say, however, that it needs President Donald Trump’s help in ensuring “restoration of a functioning, stable, global market for oil” and backs “market-based solutions” to help alleviate the current supply-demand imbalance. That could include diplomatic efforts by the president as well as the Jones Act waivers, AXPC said.
The waiver would let U.S. companies move their oil around the country more easily, without being forced to rely on more expensive, U.S.-flagged, -crewed and -built tankers. But waivers would be vehemently opposed by U.S. shipbuilding interests and their allies on Capitol Hill, who have successfully persuaded the Trump administration to back off creating new exemptions to the law.

More at: https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/s...o_ease_price_pain-13-mar-2020-161392-article/

 

[Theocrat]

Protectionist, Much?

It's not my job to run and fetch for you but I'll indulge you.

A1 S8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;...

...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations

Swordsmyth, do you understand what I'm asking you? I didn't ask where in the U.S. Constitution does it give Congress the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, etc., etc. I asked specifically where does it give the federal government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries in the U.S. from industries overseas.

Do you seriously believe Article I, Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives the federal government the power to choose winners and losers within an economy based on geography? Is that its original intent? I don't think so. Try again.

Bunk, that's like saying that the moment the army responds to an invasion you no longer have peace.
The foreign government intervention puts an end to the free market and only domestic defense against that government intervention can restore it.
You are the one turning things on their head and claiming that foreign government intervention is the free market.

That's not even the same thing. An army that invades another country is nothing like a foreign company who produces and sells goods to another country that may be comparable or even better than the goods of the host country. You're advocating taking away choice of quality goods and cheaper prices from consumers in one nation because of the fear of competition from another nation, and that's not supporting free trade.

More importantly, it's not the federal government's role to control what goods and services consumers need or want.

Defending against foreign trade warfare is not controlling the economy, I am not assuming anything, I am discussing a case of foreign government intervention and calling for our government to neutralize it.

You can keep pretending that foreign government intervention is the free market and that eliminating it so that the economy is free of government intervention is "controlling the economy" but it won't make it true.

You're a Christian, and I'm still waiting for a Biblical case that warrants the civil magistrate to control an economy from "foreign trade warfare." Until you provide a Scriptural argument for your stance, yes, you are making assumptions, which means you're being just as arbitrary as socialists, fascists, and communists when it comes to determining who has the authority to manage trade.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Swordsmyth, do you understand what I'm asking you? I didn't ask where in the U.S. Constitution does it give Congress the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, etc., etc. I asked specifically where does it give the federal government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries in the U.S. from industries overseas.

Do you seriously believe Article I, Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives the federal government the power to choose winners and losers within an economy based on geography? Is that its original intent? I don't think so. Try again.



That's not even the same thing. An army that invades another country is nothing like a foreign company who produces and sells goods to another country that may be comparable or even better than the goods of the host country. You're advocating taking away choice of quality goods and cheaper prices from consumers in one nation because of the fear of competition from another nation, and that's not supporting free trade.

More importantly, it's not the federal government's role to control what goods and services consumers need or want.



You're a Christian, and I'm still waiting for a Biblical case that warrants the civil magistrate to control an economy from "foreign trade warfare." Until you provide a Scriptural argument for your stance, yes, you are making assumptions, which means you're being just as arbitrary as socialists, fascists, and communists when it comes to determining who has the authority to manage trade.

It isn't "controlling the economy" or "picking winners and losers" to prevent a hostile foreign country from doing those exact things.
And you must have missed the part of the Constitution where it empowers the federal government to "Regulate Commerce with foreign nations" read it very carefully again.

Foreign trade is good, foreign government intervention is not.

 

[Theocrat]

Protectionist, Much?

It isn't "controlling the economy" or "picking winners and losers" to prevent a hostile foreign country from doing those exact things.
And you must have missed the part of the Constitution where it empowers the federal government to "Regulate Commerce with foreign nations" read it very carefully again.

Foreign trade is good, foreign government intervention is not.

Once again, you're begging the question. Where is the foreign government intervention?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Once again, you're begging the question. Where is the foreign government intervention?

The Saudi government is dumping product on the market at a loss to destroy our industry and make us dependent on them for our needs so they can reduce our independence and subject us to their will.