Occupy Wall Street Vs. Black Friday Consumers At WalMart [Mod Edited Title]

[bill1971]

the constitution is written to restrain the government, not walmart.

That made me laugh. Good point.

 

[Rael]

Employees have no right to check my receipt as I'm leaving unless they have reason to believe I stole something. I just breeze right past them. "Sir! Sir!" See ya.

Lol. I've done this before, "Sir! Sir!" seems to be all they are capable of saying.

 

[Becker]

True, it's not a 4th amendment violation. Still, no corporate goon has cause to lay hands on me unless they think I stole something. I don't have to show any papers to leave the store.

it's their private property, they have shopkeeper's privilege and they can arbitrarily set standards on what they view as suspect for stealing, yes, they check because they suspect you, that's their policy and they have no obligation to bend for you, you are not forced to shop on their premises.

 

[Becker]

Ugh. George4Title. (aka Ghemminger)

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How was this guy EVER a Ron Paul supporter? He is clueless.




Contrary to what he told Peter Schiff, apparently he's still with NIA too.

I NEVER believed him when he claimed he's distanced himself from them, at all. No surprise he'll always be around scammers because he has no shame.

 

[Becker]

Walmart can make many kinds of rules, but they can't keep me from leaving their property.

actually they can. You are agreeing to their rules the minute you step in. Luckily, there are local and state commerce laws which prohibit "unreasonable" detaining and imprisonment. But for the most part, they can do whatever they want short of physically injuring you (and that's thanks to laws that violate their property).

In fact, the penalty for violating most of their rules should be ejection from the property and nothing more.

Wrong, they have a right to eject you if they feel that's the best, if they have reason to believe you took more than you came with, they'll shake it out of you.

They have no right to detain me, unless they have reason to believe I stole something, and refusal to show my receipt isn't good enough.

As does freedom of travel.

Yes, unless they have reason to believe, and they are free to set any arbitrary reason they like (which local and state governments have made laws to restrict, for consumers).

 

[kylejack]

it's their private property, they have shopkeeper's privilege and they can arbitrarily set standards on what they view as suspect for stealing

No they can't. They are not allowed to search every person's bags just on the off chance that someone might have stolen. If they saw me pocket something, or if they saw me ducked down suspiciously behind some clothes, it is understandable that they could detain me. They can't search my bag just because I'm trying to leave their store.

Freedom of travel is paramount. A person who is not suspected of a crime must be permitted to leave the property, if they wish.

 

[Becker]

Black Friday: You can pitch a tent for capitalism, but not to protest your government.

you can camp if you pay rent, not when you don't.

 

[Becker]

Employees have no right to check my receipt as I'm leaving unless they have reason to believe I stole something. I just breeze right past them. "Sir! Sir!" See ya.

The one exception I have for this is membership stores like Costco. I agreed to let them check my receipt as part of the membership, so these I will stop for.

that is no different, you agreed to Walmart rules when you step in. I think they should make it more explicit to people entering though.

 

[kylejack]

Wrong, they have a right to eject you if they feel that's the best

Good, as I am trying to leave with my purchases anyway.

if they have reason to believe you took more than you came with, they'll shake it out of you.

And if they have reason to believe that, it is acceptable, but only in that case.

No court has found that a person is obligated to stop and let the door guy look through their purchases.

 

[Becker]

No they can't. They are not allowed to search every person's bags just on the off chance that someone might have stolen.

they are allowed to do anything legal on their property.

If they saw me pocket something, or if they saw me ducked down suspiciously behind some clothes, it is understandable that they could detain me. They can't search my bag just because I'm trying to leave their store.

They can say they saw just what you said

Freedom of travel is paramount. A person who is not suspected of a crime must be permitted to leave the property, if they wish.

there is no freedom to travel on private property.
and a person who is suspected of a crime or violation is subject to the property owner's detention, only as far as the law allows.

 

[kylejack]

that is no different, you agreed to Walmart rules when you step in.

Wrong, I don't. I never signed any contract with Walmart. If they want to limit access with rules then they should set up the controlled access.

I don't do it at Costco for purely pragmatic reasons: They could check the tape, look up my membership, and revoke it. Walmart can't revoke my membership, because I don't have one.

 

[Becker]

Good, as I am trying to leave with my purchases anyway.

they don't want to keep you, they just want to protect themselves

And if they have reason to believe that, it is acceptable, but only in that case.

No court has found that a person is obligated to stop and let the door guy look through their purchases.

no court has rejected shopkeeper's privilege, they only argue what is the reasonable line to draw.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Lol. I've done this before, "Sir! Sir!" seems to be all they are capable of saying.

Reminds me of this, when Mr. Fabulous agrees to play..."sir...Sir...SIR!...SIR!!...SIR!!!"

 

[Becker]

Wrong, I don't. I never signed any contract with Walmart.

Oh, you wanna play this game? Walmart never signed a contract not to strangle you or poison you either, Walmart never signed a contract they'll abide by any laws that protect you. So according to you, they're free to do all that.

If they want to limit access with rules then they should set up the controlled access.

they do, its called a door, and its regulated within commerce laws.

I don't do it at Costco for purely pragmatic reasons: They could check the tape, look up my membership, and revoke it. Walmart can't revoke my membership, because I don't have one.

Walmart can ban anybody from shopping there, walmart can check tapes too.

 

[kylejack]

they are allowed to do anything legal on their property.

A) Detaining a person who is not suspected of anything is kidnapping.
B) Taking someone's possessions from them is theft.

If they don't like me, for example, taking a picture of a display in their store, they are certainly within their rights to make me leave. But they can't prevent me from leaving when I am not suspected of a crime.

there is no freedom to travel on private property.

They can certainly tell me I have to leave. They can't tell me I have to stay. Unless they have good reason to believe I committed a crime.

 

[kylejack]

Oh, you wanna play this game? Walmart never signed a contract not to strangle you or poison you either, Walmart never signed a contract they'll abide by any laws that protect you. So according to you, they're free to do all that.

Humans have a right to life and liberty. Governments are instituted to protect those rights. There is no right to search everyone's bags.

Walmart can ban anybody from shopping there, walmart can check tapes too.

Good, let them ban me, then. Meanwhile, I'm not stopping to show my receipt.

 

[Becker]

A) Detaining a person who is not suspected of anything is kidnapping.

it is, but there is no law governing what counts as suspicion, it's open for the shopkeeper to set.

B) Taking someone's possessions from them is theft.

not if they consented to it by entering your property

If they don't like me, for example, taking a picture of a display in their store, they are certainly within their rights to make me leave. But they can't prevent me from leaving when I am not suspected of a crime.

I never disagreed with you that they can't keep you if you're not suspected of stealing. I did say a dozen times, they can suspect you based on any stupid reason they think of, and you have nothing to say if they apply a ridiculous standard and say they suspect you of a crime

They can certainly tell me I have to leave. They can't tell me I have to stay. Unless they have good reason to believe I committed a crime.

there goes your so called "freedom to travel". yes, and they can say whatever they want to be "good reason to believe you committed a crime".

 

[kylejack]

you can camp if you pay rent, not when you don't.

Right, I have to pay rent to be on public property bought with money stolen from the taxpayers.

 

[Becker]

Right, I have to pay rent to be on public property bought with money stolen from the taxpayers.

yes, you do when its not designated for the specific purpose of camping.

 

[kylejack]

I never disagreed with you that they can't keep you if you're not suspected of stealing. I did say a dozen times, they can suspect you based on any stupid reason they think of, and you have nothing to say if they apply a ridiculous standard and say they suspect you of a crime

They can try to impose any ridiculous standard they want. Tough cookies, I'm leaving.